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hrn
New member
or a 3630...
Hans
Hans
sweetnubs
New member
dessert island compressor? the distressor. the frequency response of the RNC or its THD specs mean nothing to me. the RNC has a much better frequency response and harmonic distortion specs than an 1176, so what does that mean? would I want to compromise such great frequency response with my 24 track 2"? what about my very long cable runs into a unbalanced peice of equipment? Annoying little inaccurate knobs? I said the RNC was usable, it just ain't the shit and I wouldn't plug one in unless I had too.
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Kryogh
New member
sweetnubs said:
I tought this forum was called "HOMErecording.com"
If you have the chance to work with the best gear... good for you.
Do you think that if I could afford a 2000$ compressor, I would go for the behringer?
...dont just do the math, use your brain for something else.
I dont want to offense anybody here. Sorry if its what I just did.
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hrn
New member
sweetnubs,
I've only heard got stuff about the Distressor.
For a coffee break I bring two early songs recorded by me made with this:
Fostex 8-track analogue
Fostex 12 ch mixer
...the 3630 both as tracking and mastering comp
The bass was DI'd through the 3630
Drums had one dynamic mic as OH, and 3 more mics for the rest
Vocals was made through a cheap AT mic
Background vocals through the same, singing at the same time listening through the "monitors"....second hand in which one had a broken treble speaker.
The room was an old photo studio, very small. We just managed to get the stuff into it.
It was mixed there too. It doesn't sound so good, BUT, we used what we had....
(The band was called Kemo's Lion Dub and I played the bass)
Hans
I've only heard got stuff about the Distressor.
For a coffee break I bring two early songs recorded by me made with this:
Fostex 8-track analogue
Fostex 12 ch mixer
...the 3630 both as tracking and mastering comp
The bass was DI'd through the 3630
Drums had one dynamic mic as OH, and 3 more mics for the rest
Vocals was made through a cheap AT mic
Background vocals through the same, singing at the same time listening through the "monitors"....second hand in which one had a broken treble speaker.
The room was an old photo studio, very small. We just managed to get the stuff into it.
It was mixed there too. It doesn't sound so good, BUT, we used what we had....
(The band was called Kemo's Lion Dub and I played the bass)
Hans
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scottboyher
New member
I would take the 3630 over nubbys knobs any day..
sweetnubs
New member
just to spread some nub love around the RNC performs way better than I thought any peice of $200 equipment would. shit, I use old 160 vu's which aren't the greatest sounding compressors (from a neutral standpoint) but they are sure fast and have a certain sound I like in certain instances. christ sometimes I'll even strap on a valley people dynamite for a bad but oh so good chunky grainy 80's sound.
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Harvey Gerst
New member
Sorry, but now you're trying to change the discussion and I'm not falling for that one. We aren't talking about desirable compressors that add distinctive coloration, or tape saturation. You said the RNC should be called "Really Nasty Crap".sweetnubs said:
I asked you to explain how you arrived at that conclusion, and now you spout a lot of mumbo-jumbo about really colored compressors that you like and tape saturation, neither of which answers my question, or lends any creedence to your earlier stated opinion. The RNC does exactly what it claims to do; it compresses cleanly and accurately without adding the nasty artifacts that a 3630 adds, and for a fraction of the price of a comparable compressor.
Little inaccurate knobs? Sorry, you lose on the accuracy issue - they're dead on. Yup, they're damn tiny - we agree an that one.
Long runs into unbalanced equipment? Why do you need long runs into a compressor? And is this something you didn't know about when you tried the RNC? Using it with any piece of equipment (like an RNP) will solve the balance problems, if you need long runs (and so will a balancing transformer).
The RNC is unbalanced. No secret there. So is a George Massenburg compressor. Does that mean his stuff isn't worthy of your consideration? Here's a flash for you: Once a balanced signal goes into most gear, most circuit designers immediately unbalance the signal, process it, then balance the signal again.
That adds two extra stages of potential problems from increased opamp noise, lower slew rates, more compensating feedback loops, and/or poor balancing transformers. You pay the price for poorer performance if you need longer balanced runs.
So far, all you've come up with is that you don't like unbalanced gear in general, and you don't like tiny knobs. The rest of your statements have nothing to do with the discussion.
maestro_dmc
Uses Paramedic EQ
Dang, it takes some nerve to get into a pissing contest with Harvey.
I think you're drowning nubs. Drink up.
I'd like to someday know half as much about audio and recording as Harvey's already forgotten.
I think you're drowning nubs. Drink up.
I'd like to someday know half as much about audio and recording as Harvey's already forgotten.
sweetnubs
New member
sorry I don't buy the hype that surrounds the RNC, i said the damn thing was usable. side by side comparsions with many of my compressers tell me it is fairly clean and quiet but not smooth and a little "crispy". I like smooth. The control circuitry of the RNC may be accurate and it appears to be that way, but the problem is the knobs are so tiny and the ranges so wide you don't know what in the hell you are dialing in, let alone the lame ass metering on it. shit move the knob a little and your threshold changes dramatically. So technically it is accurate but ultimately it is inaccurate because you don't know what you are setting and the meters aren't giving you any decent feedback. As far as I am concerned compression is mostly about your watching your meters. Also in the heat of a session who in the hell has time to squint at the tiny little numbers and try to figure out where the pot is in relation to those tiny little numbers. I'll take stepped switches with silver or gold contacts any day, which are also sonically superior. As far as balanced runs go a lot of my rack gear is behind me when I'm in the position (get it) and to avoid running cables along the floor where everyone can trip over them I run them into the wall, through the ceiling and down into my patch bay which is in front of me to the right. these are long runs, on the order of 65' if I remember correctly and balancing is essential. so it comes down to do you use it for home hobby recording and as a learning tool or for professional use? for the first instance is it perfectly fine, as far as professional use goes, i find it lacking. somewhat sonically and definately lacking in ease of use, so much so that I consider it unusable. don't even get me going on the RNP. I don't consider this a pissing contenst because I actually have a little respect for the harvster and disagree over this one peice of equipment. I just don't by the hype> Doesn't Harvey live in the same state the RNC is manufactured in and he probably was one of the first people to review it? hmmmmm.
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pundit
New member
I think it is a much fairer to compare a 3630 with an RNC than either with a Distressor.
I'm not sure what a 3630 sells for but I doubt it would be a great deal less than a RNC.
As far as comparisons are concerned if you want transparent compression the RNC wins hands down. If you want a dynamic 'effects' box then go for a 3630. Some may like what it does to their music... I don't like what it does to mine.
It really screws with the tone of a good acoustic guitar!
Stick it across your mix buss and see what it really can do!
I'm not sure what a 3630 sells for but I doubt it would be a great deal less than a RNC.
As far as comparisons are concerned if you want transparent compression the RNC wins hands down. If you want a dynamic 'effects' box then go for a 3630. Some may like what it does to their music... I don't like what it does to mine.
It really screws with the tone of a good acoustic guitar!
Stick it across your mix buss and see what it really can do!
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jslator
New member
sweetnubs said:
Damn, I've been doing it wrong all these years! I've been dialing in compression by listening to the compressor, when I should be looking at it! I'll have to change that.
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Kryogh
New member
Same thing here... :|jslator said:
I think I'll put my compressors right over the pc monitors
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DJL
Self Banned
Amen.Recording Engineer said:
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Harvey Gerst
New member
The bulk of nubs comments I deleted - I have no quarrel with those, since they now represent his personal likes and dislikes, and he's entitled to that. Most of my outboard runs (with the exception of microphones) are around 20 feet or less, and we have no problems with unbalalnced or balanced equipment. We use a balanced setup in the big studio, but unbalanced in the small room.sweetnubs said:
As far as living in Texas near FMR, I don't. I'm near the OK border and he's in the middle of the state. I first heard about the RNC from Fletcher, and I did buy it direct, since Fletcher wasn't a dealer at the time, just a guy raving about it on rec.audio.pro. I paid full list price and I didn't talk to anyone there about reviewing it or anything, since I didn't know anything about it, and I don't review stuff (or sure as hell didn't review stuff at the time).
I did have a brand new $5,000 Neutrik A2 Audio Test Station on loan from the Neutrik rep, and here comes this new talked about electronic toy at the same time. What would you do? For me, it was a no-brainer; let's see if this puppy really meets it's specs. RNC, I'd like you to meet the Neutrik A2.
It was only after the FMR beat it's published specs by such a wide margin, that I actually called Mark McQuilken for the first time to see if these were real numbers I was getting, or was I doing something wrong in my testing. I learned that my tests were pretty much typical specs, and he was just being VERY conservative in his published specs.
Since people were asking about the RNC on rec.audio.pro, I posted my test results, and suddenly, I was a "reviewer" - in some people's eyes, anyway.
I had a 3630 when the retail on them was pretty high, but I never got any really useful results from it, and I sold it many years ago for $90. The lights and functions were really cool and I really wanted to like it. Unfortunately, if I closed my eyes and just listened to the sound, it pretty much sucked for the stuff our studio does. It's not on my "highly recommended" list.
Whoops, forgot one comment that needs clarification. nubs said, "I'll take stepped switches with silver or gold contacts any day, which are also sonically superior.". That's not true in this case; the signal does not run thru any of the knobs on the front panel, so the pots have zero effect on the sonics; those pots control DSP functions which act on the audio.
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DJL
Self Banned
You know Harvey, if you ever deside to sell (cheap) that RNC1773 with the modified lid... you know which one I mean, I'd really like to have it along with a big colored photo of the lid modification being preformed... since I drove you to it, I'd really like to have it. 
sweetnubs
New member
yep your're right, the RNC has digitally controlled analog circuitry so the pots wouldn't have too much effect but i'd still prefer stepped switches 'cause the suckers lock in place with a discernable number telling you exactly what is going on. I just don't think the thing is suitable for professional use. hell, I first go with automated or manual fader riding unless it is impossible without a compressor. I still feel the RNC is not a smooth compressor and doesn't handle bass frequencies too well along with it being too frustrating to use in the heat of a session where your under the pressure of being paid well over a grand a day. Tiny knobs, terrible metering, and difficult to determine settings. yuck. unbalanced. but to each their own. Of course I own some nice unbalanced gear but nubs went in and modified it so it was balanced. The RNC probably isn't so user friendly.
"Damn, I've been doing it wrong all these years! I've been dialing in compression by listening to the compressor, when I should be looking at it! I'll have to change that"
well mr. you have been doing it wrong all of these years. Of course you need your ears to verify the sonic integrity of the unit, if it is pumping and breathing or if you are going for a special effect. But you need good metering to determine how fast your transients are being grabbed, how much reduction is taking place and how much make up gain is being applied, when you threshold is crossed, etc. etc. etc. You should generally find your eyes glued to the meters while simultaneously listening for any artifacts being generated, pumping, etc. Of course I'm sure you're able to hear a .05 ms transient being reduced by .5 decibals.
"Damn, I've been doing it wrong all these years! I've been dialing in compression by listening to the compressor, when I should be looking at it! I'll have to change that"
well mr. you have been doing it wrong all of these years. Of course you need your ears to verify the sonic integrity of the unit, if it is pumping and breathing or if you are going for a special effect. But you need good metering to determine how fast your transients are being grabbed, how much reduction is taking place and how much make up gain is being applied, when you threshold is crossed, etc. etc. etc. You should generally find your eyes glued to the meters while simultaneously listening for any artifacts being generated, pumping, etc. Of course I'm sure you're able to hear a .05 ms transient being reduced by .5 decibals.
cavedog101
Well-known member
The RNC is a very clear and detailed compressor that works like it ought to. Maybe a good upgrade for it would be to put it in the 3630 box with all the pretty and useless lights and knobs....
And why would anyone want to argue with Harvey about the technical merits of something hes tested? dumb
And 'Nubs'....not every duty of a compressor involves painting up the original sound...and while you may get a great and wonderful pallette with all that high dollar/high end gear, not everyone on this site has access or experience with this kind of gear.It is ,afterall, homerecording.
In answer to the original poster's question....the 3630 sucks ass like nothing else except perhaps the beringer stuff...its not a 'good' first compressor and you'd be better off learning more about mic placement and level control than relying on a piece of gear that will only add problems to what you're trying to achieve.
And why would anyone want to argue with Harvey about the technical merits of something hes tested? dumb
And 'Nubs'....not every duty of a compressor involves painting up the original sound...and while you may get a great and wonderful pallette with all that high dollar/high end gear, not everyone on this site has access or experience with this kind of gear.It is ,afterall, homerecording.
In answer to the original poster's question....the 3630 sucks ass like nothing else except perhaps the beringer stuff...its not a 'good' first compressor and you'd be better off learning more about mic placement and level control than relying on a piece of gear that will only add problems to what you're trying to achieve.
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jslator
New member
sweetnubs said:
Yep, been using my ears for that all along. But now I see the error of my ways.
Rossi
New member
Why is it that there are always people bashing Behringer compressors? Everyone I know who has one (and I myself have quite a few) knows the Composer is a very usable compressor. No way comparable to the Alesis. Just read the user comments on Harmony Central. The RNC might be silightly better sounding (I can't tell, you can't buy one here) but the Composer can do some things the RNC can't. Most importantly you can run it in dual mono mode, which is essential if you want to use it as a channel compressor (unless you want to buy twice as many RNCs). Plus it is symmetrical, has hard bypass, and comes as a rack unit with an internal power supply. They sound good and they're dirt cheap. So why do you think it "sucks ass," cavedog?
sweetnubs
New member
so what if the harvster tested the damn thing, there are plenty of plug-in compressors that have specs way beyond a lot of classic analog compressors. so again, what in the hell do specs mean? (by the way .01%thd ain't all that great) like I said it's a pain in the ass to use, not smooth and it doeesn't handle bottom end very well. There is something to be said for transformers, class A circuitry and discrete point to point wiring. specs lie and reviewers especially lie. don't get mad at the nubmeister for telling it like it is.
p.s. jslator, setting compression by ear only is right up their with setting your tracking levels by ear. obviously if you can't make heads or tails of my comments about compression and metering you don't know how to use it in the traditional sense, maybe you use it well as an effect, maybe . . . .
p.s. jslator, setting compression by ear only is right up their with setting your tracking levels by ear. obviously if you can't make heads or tails of my comments about compression and metering you don't know how to use it in the traditional sense, maybe you use it well as an effect, maybe . . . .