Alesis ADAT

[Smithers XKR]

I have the early 20bit grey panel model in one of my racks along with a 7 series DCC. That particular rack is a portable one 8 unit and the ADAT takes up 3U and the DCC 2U. I have a nice 16Ch Yamaha analogue desk on top and thought it would be nice to find another ADAT the same to fill the little rack and give me 16 digital channels.
I found one on Ebay for £85 so I have put in an offer of £70.
I have so much recording gear and I really do not need any more and I dont really need 16 tracks... but I just could not help myself. It is becoming a bit of an obsession and I wanted to complete the rack with 2 of the same ADATS and the DCC. Its all a bit sad and embarressing, I need to get out more
For £70 it is not a great deal, I dont go out on the drink nowadays and friends of mine would spend more than that on a boozy night out.

What do you think about the price?, as I really cant remember what I paid for the original ADAT, and should I seek help with my gear buying issues? (Slightly tongue in cheek)
Cheers guys

 

[jamesperrett]

A single ADAT machine was reasonably usable but once you try to sync up more than one you'll probably end up very frustrated as you wait ages for them to lock up. Back in the day we had a couple of ADATs in the studio but we tended to keep using the Fostex E16 because it didn't have those long waits.

 

[Smithers XKR]

A single ADAT machine was reasonably usable but once you try to sync up more than one you'll probably end up very frustrated as you wait ages for them to lock up. Back in the day we had a couple of ADATs in the studio but we tended to keep using the Fostex E16 because it didn't have those long waits.

Thanks for the advice James, good stuff . I studied Music Production/Technology way back in 95/96 at Newcastle upon Tyne College. They had secured a load of funding and opened a state of the art multi studio complex in an old primary school which was the best college music complex in the UK at the time. I remember Mark Knopfler came to the opening and said he wished that there had been a facility like this when he started out. Lovely guy, very humble and non rock star attitude in every way. He spent a lot of time chatting with us students.

Anyway... back on topic.
The College facility had a 24 track digital studio with 3 ADATS linked. I never recalled any sync issues but they were the blackface v2 from maybe 95? So I am guessing that Alesis identified the synchronisation problem of the v1 silverface model and done and fixed and quickened up the interface chip? I don't know.
I do know that £70 for a machine that cost £3.5k in 1992 on launch is a no brainer. If the lad declines my offer then I will just leave it and stick with the 8 tracks on the single unit bearing in mind your advice.
Cheers James
KR's.. Smithers.

 

[jamesperrett]

Mine were the later LX20 machines from 1998. I think the transports were the same on all the machines but they used different convertors and different audio connections. Sometimes they sync up immediately, sometimes you have to wait 10 or 15 seconds while occasionally they just don't sync at all. Nowadays I just use the ones that still work to transfer old tapes while the one that doesn't work can still be used as an A/D convertor if I want an extra 8 input channels.

I would expect your seller to be pleased to find someone who wants the machine - early digital isn't particularly sought after at the moment and there are stories of the big expensive DASH machines being left out in the street because no-one wanted them.

 

[Smithers XKR]

Mine were the later LX20 machines from 1998. I think the transports were the same on all the machines but they used different convertors and different audio connections. Sometimes they sync up immediately, sometimes you have to wait 10 or 15 seconds while occasionally they just don't sync at all. Nowadays I just use the ones that still work to transfer old tapes while the one that doesn't work can still be used as an A/D convertor if I want an extra 8 input channels.

I would expect your seller to be pleased to find someone who wants the machine - early digital isn't particularly sought after at the moment and there are stories of the big expensive DASH machines being left out in the street because no-one wanted them.

Yes good point thanks, I believe todays junk are tomorrows gold in 20 years time, if I live that long . For example I sold a MOOG Opus 3 analogue synth for 200 quid in 1985 when MIDI and digital multitimbral synths came in. Back then you could hardly give an analogue synthesizer away. I saw a Moog Opus 3 on the Reverb website the other day for £3500, bah humbug
Just saying

 

[Smithers XKR]

Mine were the later LX20 machines from 1998. I think the transports were the same on all the machines but they used different convertors and different audio connections. Sometimes they sync up immediately, sometimes you have to wait 10 or 15 seconds while occasionally they just don't sync at all. Nowadays I just use the ones that still work to transfer old tapes while the one that doesn't work can still be used as an A/D convertor if I want an extra 8 input channels.

I would expect your seller to be pleased to find someone who wants the machine - early digital isn't particularly sought after at the moment and there are stories of the big expensive DASH machines being left out in the street because no-one wanted them.

PS .... I kept my vinyl and turntables when everyone binned them when CD came in and now they all buying new vinyl albums again. But I have the original pressings.
Sorry that was not meant to come over as smug in any way. I just think stay true to what you believe

 

[Smithers XKR]

Mine were the later LX20 machines from 1998. I think the transports were the same on all the machines but they used different convertors and different audio connections. Sometimes they sync up immediately, sometimes you have to wait 10 or 15 seconds while occasionally they just don't sync at all. Nowadays I just use the ones that still work to transfer old tapes while the one that doesn't work can still be used as an A/D convertor if I want an extra 8 input channels.

I would expect your seller to be pleased to find someone who wants the machine - early digital isn't particularly sought after at the moment and there are stories of the big expensive DASH machines being left out in the street because no-one wanted them.

The D/A converter facility that you mention is really interesting James and I would really like to learn more if I can pick your brains. Of course the ADAT is digital format but uses analogue media in the sense that it is using SVHS tapes. So in essence it is a hybrid system in the same way that my DCC and a DAT recorder works. I have an old XRI 300 striper SMPTE that I use with a cassette based Yamaha MT8X multracker. Do you think the stripe coder can work with the ADAT. I cant see any reason why not.
Sorry mate, I am on a very steep learning curve now. I am a musician first, a producer and arranger second, and my technical abilities are pretty limited. All I wish to do is to gather and gain more knowledge in the technical aspects of setting up and using the equipment I have from more knowledgable people in order that I can create and arrange my music and ideas. I am not aiming to become Trevor Horn! I hope that makes some sort of sense. Thanks James.

 

[Smithers XKR]

Mine were the later LX20 machines from 1998. I think the transports were the same on all the machines but they used different convertors and different audio connections. Sometimes they sync up immediately, sometimes you have to wait 10 or 15 seconds while occasionally they just don't sync at all. Nowadays I just use the ones that still work to transfer old tapes while the one that doesn't work can still be used as an A/D convertor if I want an extra 8 input channels.

I would expect your seller to be pleased to find someone who wants the machine - early digital isn't particularly sought after at the moment and there are stories of the big expensive DASH machines being left out in the street because no-one wanted them.

My offer has expired on the ADAT and have had no contact, so will just leave it. Shame really as these original ADATs are so good, mine sounds very natural and warm on any recordings I have done.... possibly the width of the SVHS 2 inch analogue video tape gives it some sort of old style bandwidth, I really have no idea. Thanks for the advice about synching issues James, I would have never known and would have stressed me.... so I appreciate that

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Ugh, ADATs. Converter technology was still developing, and the transports were a bit fiddly, perhaps because they used what was essentially an off-the-shelf VCR transport. At the time, it was a huge step forward for affordable multitrack recording, but it's just so completely outclassed by what's currently available. I preferred Tascam's DTRS system (DA-88, DA-38 etc.). The transports were more robust because they were engineered specifically for the application. Syncing decks was generally pretty fast and reliable, at least until they started needing service. One advantage the ADAT had over the DTRS machines was longer head life.

There's nothing about S-VHS tape (which is 1/2") that gives ADATs any sonic advantage over modern gear. All the tape does is store digital data. It doesn't have any more "bandwidth" than the converters produce, i.e. 20 Hz-20 kHz. If ADAT has a sound, it's probably in the converters, and it's probably something that's technically a deficiency. Nothing wrong with that. A lot of the things people like about analog tape are technically deficiencies.

I suspect you can stripe an ADAT just like any other deck. But ADATs had onboard sync capabilities which may allow you to sync something to them without losing a track. My memory from those days is a bit fuzzy, but I seem to recall that a MOTU Digital Timepiece might help with that.

 

[Smithers XKR]

Ugh, ADATs. Converter technology was still developing, and the transports were a bit fiddly, perhaps because they used what was essentially an off-the-shelf VCR transport. At the time, it was a huge step forward for affordable multitrack recording, but it's just so completely outclassed by what's currently available. I preferred Tascam's DTRS system (DA-88, DA-38 etc.). The transports were more robust because they were engineered specifically for the application. Syncing decks was generally pretty fast and reliable, at least until they started needing service. One advantage the ADAT had over the DTRS machines was longer head life.

There's nothing about S-VHS tape (which is 1/2") that gives ADATs any sonic advantage over modern gear. All the tape does is store digital data. It doesn't have any more "bandwidth" than the converters produce, i.e. 20 Hz-20 kHz. If ADAT has a sound, it's probably in the converters, and it's probably something that's technically a deficiency. Nothing wrong with that. A lot of the things people like about analog tape are technically deficiencies.

I suspect you can stripe an ADAT just like any other deck. But ADATs had onboard sync capabilities which may allow you to sync something to them without losing a track. My memory from those days is a bit fuzzy, but I seem to recall that a MOTU Digital Timepiece might help with that.

Thanks Boulder

I know! Its not about the tech man! Its crap I know... no logical reason why we use old tech. But we are human not robots.
There was no logical reason why I bought an old Jaguar XKR in 2009, logic dictated I should have bought a 2nd hand 911, a better car in every way.
Sorry
I get what you say about bandwidth but can I ask please? Yeah you are right, it is grainy imperfection that gives character.

 

[jamesperrett]

The D/A converter facility that you mention is really interesting James and I would really like to learn more if I can pick your brains. Of course the ADAT is digital format but uses analogue media in the sense that it is using SVHS tapes. So in essence it is a hybrid system in the same way that my DCC and a DAT recorder works. I have an old XRI 300 striper SMPTE that I use with a cassette based Yamaha MT8X multracker. Do you think the stripe coder can work with the ADAT. I cant see any reason why not.

Yes, you could stripe an ADAT track with code but it would be a waste of a track because ADATs already have their own timing/control track so it would be better to use a 9 pin sync to MIDI Time Code adaptor. I use a MOTU Digital Timepiece here, but you don't need to use anything that sophisticated unless you want to use the MT8X and the ADAT in sync with each other at the same time.

 

[TalismanRich]

possibly the width of the SVHS 2 inch analogue video tape gives it some sort of old style bandwidth, I really have no idea.

What BSG said about the tape having no inherent effect on bandwidth is true. When I bought my first computer, a TI 99/4A, programs were stored on cassettes. All you heard was a nasty hash sound, which was the digital data converted to an audio frequency to represent pulses. There were a few radio programs who actually transmitted the sound, which you could record and then use that to load a program into your computer.

If you ever heard the sound of an old data modem, it was the same process.

With digital, it's either a zero or a one. There's no in between, no two or three.

 

[Smithers XKR]

Yes, you could stripe an ADAT track with code but it would be a waste of a track because ADATs already have their own timing/control track so it would be better to use a 9 pin sync to MIDI Time Code adaptor. I use a MOTU Digital Timepiece here, but you don't need to use anything that sophisticated unless you want to use the MT8X and the ADAT in sync with each other at the same time.

Yes you are right, the ADAT has MTC. The more gear you have the more complex it all becomes. I wont try to sync the Alesis to the MT8X no point. I'll just use the XRI with the Yamaha and use the 2 systems independantly.
Thanks

 

[Smithers XKR]

Ugh, ADATs. Converter technology was still developing, and the transports were a bit fiddly, perhaps because they used what was essentially an off-the-shelf VCR transport. At the time, it was a huge step forward for affordable multitrack recording, but it's just so completely outclassed by what's currently available. I preferred Tascam's DTRS system (DA-88, DA-38 etc.). The transports were more robust because they were engineered specifically for the application. Syncing decks was generally pretty fast and reliable, at least until they started needing service. One advantage the ADAT had over the DTRS machines was longer head life.

There's nothing about S-VHS tape (which is 1/2") that gives ADATs any sonic advantage over modern gear. All the tape does is store digital data. It doesn't have any more "bandwidth" than the converters produce, i.e. 20 Hz-20 kHz. If ADAT has a sound, it's probably in the converters, and it's probably something that's technically a deficiency. Nothing wrong with that. A lot of the things people like about analog tape are technically deficiencies.

I suspect you can stripe an ADAT just like any other deck. But ADATs had onboard sync capabilities which may allow you to sync something to them without losing a track. My memory from those days is a bit fuzzy, but I seem to recall that a MOTU Digital Timepiece might help with that.

Good point, its just storing digital information on an analogue media in the same way as DAT, DCC and floppy disc.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Maybe overly pedantic, but the medium isn't innately analog or digital, it's just magnetic. The signal stored on it is what's analog or digital. You can add Hi8 tapes to your list. They were used to store analog and digital video, as well as digital 8-track audio.

 

[Smithers XKR]

Maybe overly pedantic, but the medium isn't innately analog or digital, it's just magnetic. The signal stored on it is what's analog or digital. You can add Hi8 tapes to your list. They were used to store analog and digital video, as well as digital 8-track audio.

Not pedantic good point. Whatever media it is stored on its either a series of zeros and ones as a minus 5 volt and 0 volt signal to recreate the waveforn or an analogue voltage to recreate the waveform in a more fluid way. The analogue signal is more fluid and uses voltage amplitude modulation but by its very nature can be easier corrupted. The ones and zeros of digital are more precise and accurate but little square steps so it is not quite a curve waveform. But the higher the resolution of the digital waveform becomes, then those little square steps get closer and closer to creating a perfect curve sonic musical waveform.

 

[Smithers XKR]

Maybe overly pedantic, but the medium isn't innately analog or digital, it's just magnetic. The signal stored on it is what's analog or digital. You can add Hi8 tapes to your list. They were used to store analog and digital video, as well as digital 8-track audio.

Digital music processing is kind of like Mathematical Calculus IMVHO

 

[TalismanRich]

Smithers, those little "stair steps" are not really an accurate representation of the way digital works. It's convenient but misleading. Instead of steps, it should be respresented as a series of "lollipops", single points, which the D/A converter then converts to a smooth waveform.

You might want to watch the Xiph.org primer on digital audio here: XIPH.ORG

 

[Smithers XKR]

Smithers, those little "stair steps" are not really an accurate representation of the way digital works. It's convenient but misleading. Instead of steps, it should be respresented as a series of "lollipops", single points, which the D/A converter then converts to a smooth waveform.

You might want to watch the Xiph.org primer on digital audio here: XIPH.ORG

Thanks and agreed, all I am trying to say is that the original digital theory by its very nature only used horizontal and vertical pulses. Yes I see what you mean by the set mapping points. The closer the points then the higher the digital resolution.

So I get what you are saying dude
Still prefer analogue though, I am old!!!
Nice to chat Tallisman
Take care mate.
Smitthers

 

[Smithers XKR]

Smithers, those little "stair steps" are not really an accurate representation of the way digital works. It's convenient but misleading. Instead of steps, it should be respresented as a series of "lollipops", single points, which the D/A converter then converts to a smooth waveform.

You might want to watch the Xiph.org primer on digital audio here: XIPH.ORG

That is a really good video.
But I will throw a spanner into the works and be a bit cheeky.
It is not possible to create a perfect sine wave by digital means. Using Calculus theory it is not mathematically possible.
You can get closer and closer but it is an infinite parameter.