Air Conditioning is In

[DigitalDon]

Yes I finally got it installed. Did everything myself except installing the freon lines and charging the system. That cost me $275. It took me forever but I really saved a lot of $$. My total cost came to about $700. This was with a used 3 ton system. What a difference! Now I can work out there without sweating my ass off. We can move the band out of the kitchen (again) and my wife will be happy

Left to do? Finish the sheetrock in the hallway. Couldn't do it until the freon and drain lines were installed in the exterior wall. Install baseboards in all rooms. Install glass and trim. Connectorize thru wall snakes in all rooms. Mount remaining doors. Finish bathroom (later). Put my new desk together and install all equipment. Start tuning the rooms - build and mount absorber/diffuser panels. Record, record, record. Damn I miss it. I haven't been able to record since last August.

My son is in the process of building a drum riser for the live room. Nothing fancy. Just a 6' x 8' wood structure. I haven't yet determined what to place under the riser to isolate it from the floor. He was itching to build it so I said go ahead. I do have a question though. I know mass is your friend when building something like this. Should the underside be closed in with plywood, etc like the top? Will I get unwanted resonance if I don't? If closed in shouldn't I fill it with something. Can blown in type insulation be used here or do I have to have mass like sand, etc. I know, mass is your friend but damn that thing would be heavy! I would like to be able to move it if necessary. Remember this isn't an isolated drum room but my "live" room. My son's band will be practicing in there when we're not recording. Whether or not the riser is closed in should it sit flat (on some type of rubber material) or should I put "feet" on it (also with rubber underneath).

Sorry to get so long. Opinions anyone?

DD

 

[frederic]

I know mass is your friend when building something like this. Should the underside be closed in with plywood, etc like the top? Will I get unwanted resonance if I don't? If closed in shouldn't I fill it with something. Can blown in type insulation be used here or do I have to have mass like sand, etc. I know, mass is your friend but damn that thing would be heavy! I would

Sorry to get so long. Opinions anyone?

DD

A friend of mine created two 4'x8' platforms out of 2x8's, using epoxy and deck screws to hold the frames together, then covered with two layers of 3/4" plywood, which was also glued and screwed. having two platforms together gave him 8'x8', but each piece was movable by itself without too much grunt. He put carpet strips along the 2x8's on the bottom so it wouldn't mar any nice flooring, should he play or record somewhere thats nicer than his garage

He has the two 4x8' platforms mating with a pin hinge of some kind, I didn't take a close look at it but the two platforms get tied together, yet can be easily seperated. Was a home depot item, I'm sure.

He's got no insulation, padding, or sand underneath or inside, its completely hollow, but its glued together so well it doesn't seem to be an issue. He's played live iwth it for a long time with no issues, but I can't say how it would sound in a recording environment.

 

[DDev]

I've never built one myself, but it seems like I remember reading where someone had used hockey pucks on the bottoms for riser to floor isolation and was happy with it. To make it moveable you could recess some of those wheels they use on shop equipment (like table saws) that have a foot operated lever that brings the wheels down just enough to raise the platform.

Just some random thoughts.

Darryl.....

 

[Michael Jones]

Don, you're just 2 steps ahead of me!

Brick layers should be finished by the end of the week, Then the electricians come in and do their stuff, followed by the A/C crew.

Sounds like you saved a bundle on the A/C, but that's just not something I'm willing to take on.

Congrats! Sounds like its all comming together.

 

[frederic]

Then the electricians come in and do their stuff, followed by the A/C crew.

Not to rain on your parade, but electrical work is a good way to save money. Run your own wires, mount your own boxes and duplexes, and leave them to be terminated at the box by the electrical contractors. This way its inspected and certified, and you can save a few bucks.

Thats assuming you want to do it yourself. Sometimes its easier to pay and not be bothered. It also goes quicker

Sounds like you saved a bundle on the A/C, but that's just not something I'm willing to take on.

As far as A/c goes, to me its just like electrical or plumbing. large things that have to snake all over.

The only thing I wouldn't touch are the fittings, and freon bits.

 

[Michael Jones]

The only thing about the electrical is that I'm getting an additional 200 amp service. The licensed electrician is the only one that can pull a permit for that. Then he has to run the service feed, (100 feet, underground) set a meter, then pull the metered feed to the studio, set the pannel, and wire the studio. Given all that, running the individual lines is a pretty small part of the job. Not likely to save much money there. Besides, I can hear it now: "Well you went and monkey-ed around with it, now its going to cost you double!" Or, I can hear the inspector saying: "AH! see there! Look at that! Your electrical outlets are supposed to 14" from finished floor, not 12 1/2", you're going to have to rip 'em all out!" No, these guys are licensed professionals, I'll know it was done to code, and I wont wake up in a cold sweat everytime it thunders.

Its not something I'm uncomfortable doing, it's just something I don't want to do, especially in July, in Central Texas.

As far as the A/C, the ONLY thing I would consider doing is the ducting, and again, its July, and I'm in Texas!

Plus, both of these trades could knock this stuff out in a couple of days, a week at most, whereas with me, It'd take much longer!

I have it budgeted, its waranted by the contractor, and all I have to do is make a couple of phone calls. I'm not jacking with it!

 

[DigitalDon]

Yeah I did all the electrical myself too. I'm an electronic technician by day but I still consulted the NEC guide to make sure I did everything to code. One thing I made sure of too is that there are no electrical power lines anywhere near my audio lines. The only exception is at the desk itself. The audio lines terminate just below the control room window and the power outlets are 2 feet below and about 1 foot to the left of the XLR panel. They never actually cross or parallel each other.

I have one thing I need to correct/adjust though. The 24 VAC transformer than energizes the outside unit is mounted inside the air handler. Even when the air conditioning is turned off I can hear the 60 Hz buzz of the transformer through the ductwork. I don't know if this is normal or just an old transformer (bought system used). I'll mount it on rubber pads to see if that solves the problem. If not, I'll buy another transformer. If that doesn't work I'll run an electrical line to the outside unit and mount it inside that unit. I really think it's just a mechanical (coupling) problem. Either way the buzz has to go.

I'm sure I could have done the coolant lines myself but I knew it would be hard to get someone out here in the country just to charge up the lines with freon. Gotta let them make something. That and you have to be licensed to buy Freon 22 (unbelieveably expensive stuff too).

Michael - At the speed we're both going you'll probably finish before I do

 

[frederic]

The only thing about the electrical is that I'm getting an additional 200 amp service. The licensed electrician is the only one that can pull a permit for that.

Yes, which is why I recommended an electrician does that.

But as a former licensed electrician, I can tell you that the individual feeds can be time consuming, and can rack up some dollars.

Maybe I'm more frugal But I do fully understand your point about texas and july. I'm in NJ and my studio is 97 degrees at midnight right now.

Plus, both of these trades could knock this stuff out in a couple of days, a week at most, whereas with me, It'd take much longer!

Well, keep in mind I used to be a licensed electrical contractor, so I forget that I can slap in outlets faster than most can breathe. Plumbing, well, takes me much longer than most

Sorry about that!


I have it budgeted, its waranted by the contractor, and all I have to do is make a couple of phone calls. I'm not jacking with it! [/B][/QUOTE]

 

[MikeA]

Don

I've not been perusing here in a while. Summer has pulled my attention away, but have you posted any pictures lately? I'd love to see how it's coming along...

 

[Michael Jones]

"...Michael - At the speed we're both going you'll probably finish before I do "

Hmmm... I don't know about that, you're just about at the paint and polish stage aren't you?

Even with the major things out of the way: (elec., A/C, Insulation, sheetrock) there's still a TON of things to work on: (Floors, sinks, counters, lavatory, paint, room tuning, my console, lighting, audio wiring, load-in ... the list goes on.)

 

[frederic]

Even with the major things out of the way: (elec., A/C, Insulation, sheetrock) there's still a TON of things to work on: (Floors, sinks, counters, lavatory, paint, room tuning, my console, lighting, audio wiring, load-in ... the list goes on.) [/B]

Isn't it amazing how the list seems to get longer each day?

 

[mshilarious]

Can I ask a licensed electrical contractor a totally unrelated question? Something I've always wondered?

OK, here's the deal: I got a D in physics, and yet, I still understand the theory of how electricians can work with the power on and not die. What I don't get is the practice. I mean sometimes when I'm wiring a box, and I've done more than a few, I'll play let's pretend I'm an electrician and see if I can avoid touching a hot lead either at all or not when I'm grounded (power is definitely OFF for me all the time!). I can't do it. Every damn time I touch it, or I touch a metal part of the tool I'm using, or even if I don't kill myself, I accidentially short the hot wire to ground with my tool.

Of course I realize I am an incompetent idiot, so again the power is always off. But to me watching an electrician work is like watching Tiger Woods play golf.

Then there's my carpenter, he can vaguely hold a half-folded tape measure skew against a wall and still cut a stud exactly to length. I hate him.

 

[DigitalDon]

Michael - I've had my "punch" list (that's what home construction guys in the biz call it) for so long the lines on the paper are beginning to fade Still, I feel like I've made a lot of progress in the last several months because that original list has a lot of stuff crossed off. Now if I'll just quit adding stuff to the list!!!!

Mike A - My son's band is practicing in the live room tomorrow night. I'll take some pics and post them. My control room is such a mess right now (paint cans, dust and other loose stuff laying around) that I'd be embarressed to post a pic of it. However I will post a pic of what I call Frankenstein's monster. It's my heat/air handler supply plenum ducting located in a small room above the vocal booth. I have to finish insulating it then I'll post a pic. The trunks turn 90 degrees one way then 90 degrees the other way. This was not done for any other reason than necessity. Thank goodness for adjustable 90 degree elbows.

DD

 

[Michael Jones]

Can I ask a licensed electrical contractor a totally unrelated question? Something I've always wondered?

OK, here's the deal: I got a D in physics, and yet, I still understand the theory of how electricians can work with the power on and not die.

The ONLY time I know of when this is done is by lineman. (Guys that work on the high-wire electrical distrubution lines) The actually energize the "cherry-picker" they're in, make it hot, same as the line. They're not grounded, but insulated from ground by the rubber tires of the truck. The idea of energizing the cherry-picker or cage is so that they, the lineman, are at the SAME potential energy of the charged electrical line.

If both sources are at the SAME POTENTIAL ENERGY, then there's absolutely no path for a current to take.

(I'm not an electrician, BTW)

 

[frederic]

understand the theory of how electricians can work with the power on and not die. What I don't get is the practice.

They wear gloves, they aren't grounded, and they are very careful

Outside on the pole the circuits are always live, because cutting the power grid to splice something in is considered rude to other homeowners

Inside, the breaker(s) should always be flipped before work is done. But, there are instances where one can't do that.

Last night, was one of those times for me actually, as I'm tearing down my home studio to reinsulate, I had to remove the ceiling lights which are fed by the room next door, which is my wife's office. Instead of shutting down her PC, her lights, etc, I simply removed my feed from the junction box in the crawl space. Had to be careful of course, but as long as I didn't touch the box while touching the hot leads, I was going to be fine. So, I didn't

 

[Light]

Back in the sixties my father worked for a slum lord as a carpenter in a high rise apartment building, and he is always telling me stories of the electrician he worked with there. The breakers in the building where in the basement, so this guy never killed the circuit while he was working. In fact, he would check circuits for continuity by touching the back of his thumb and index finger to the hot and neutral wires. Because electricity makes muscles contract, the current would pass through his thumb to his index finger, make the muscles contract, and break the contact. Now, neither my dad nor myself would EVER do this, nor do we do electrical work without killing the circuit (and double checking with a multi-meter), but as long as you know electricity extremely well, and never let your concentration waver, it can be done. It is just really stupid, if you have a choice.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi