aggressive sound

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The Garage

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i just finished recording the basic tracks to an album my band is recording. we play rock -- with some emo, punk influence. everything sounds clean, sterile! i want to develop a sound for this record and polished/clean are not high on my list of priorities. i want an aggressive sound -- not necessarily like early iggy pop, but not far from his record's spirit.
for instance, my drums sound very clean and normal. they sound too sterile. i want more grit, more dirt, more grunge and aggression. i tried to mess around with some plugins -- magneto and waves compressor -- and it sound ok, except that the snare lost its pop and the kik lost its definition.
the bass doesn't sit well in the mix either. it sounds pretty good on its own, but it gets swallowed up in the mix. i want it more aggressive and bulging. anyone here add distortion to their bass ever?
any help would be appreciate. but first, lemme add that i have cubase 32 with a crap load of plugs. so whatever i do mixing-wise is going to be done in the computer and not with outboard gear. anyways, suggestions are welcome. thanks.
-teddy
 
seems like you are going for a Midtown type sound. 2" analog should do. :)
 
not a big fan of their recording sound actually. sounds like a polished pop punk sound to me. and i don't have access to 2" tape. not sure if you were really trying to be helpful or not, but i am recording onto a computer through cubase with access to plugins. that's it. if you got any other suggestions, i'd appreciate it though.
 
I like the AIMPL Warm Tone. It's fairly subtle. Won't make your tracks sound a whole lot more distorted, but it does add some aggressiveness. Particularly on drums. Gives things a very squashed/compressed sound . . . but definitely a small shot in the arm in terms of aggressiveness.

Try it for what it does to the drums if for nothing else.
 
oh well... it's a DirectX plugin for PC only. double whammy being that i use a mac and cubase. you wouldn't happen to know if this sounds like magneto, would ya?
maybe i'm coming at this all wrong. lemme split up my question into two parts. a) what vst plugins would ya suggest? b) any specific techniques you would use? as in, a specific eq setting, a suggestion about how i should go about mixing. thanks for those who replied so far. i guess i needed to clarify what kind of answers i am looking for though.
-teddy
 
When i need punch and spiking sound, i throw distortion in.
I like sound of snare, distorted thru clipping preamp.
Also, even jazz bass players use overdrive to get definition in highs.
Try distortion on aux channel, send some snare and bass in it; it will open high end.
 
Try running a submix of the drums thru a guitar amp, mic it up and record it to a new track and mix it in with the existing drums to taste.
 
try mass limiting in the mastering process. this will dirty it up a bit.
 
I like the idea of amping the drums. That's a good suggestion. You might even try getting a hold of a Big Muff Pie. That would give you some really distorted sounds to play with.

If the bass guitar is getting lost in the mix, then two things are probably happening:

* Your guitars have too much low-end action going on. Roll some bass off of them starting at around 150 / 200 hz and see if that helps you hear the bass better in the mix.

* Your bass might be interfering with the drums. Use a spectrum analyzer plugin to find out where the kick and snare are on the frequency spectrum (probably around 80 hz and 200 hz respectively). If you can't get a hold of a spectrum analyzer, or don't feel comfortable with it, then just make a wide cut in the bass around 80 hz and 200 hz. This will allow you to turn the bass up louder in the mix without clipping.

You should also try cutting some of the mids out of the drum tracks. The bulk of the drums' action should be whatever frequencies the bass, snare, and hihat/cymbals are using. Everything else should be cut. The small area between 80 hz and 200 hz (kick and snare) should be (narrow) cut by about 3-4 db. Then, everything between 200 and 3,500 (where hi-hat starts) should be (wide) cut as well by about 4 db.

If this causes the snare to lose some of it's snap, then go back and re-add some of the mids around 1-2 khz . . . wherever you hear that residing.

Cutting the bass and the guitar tracks around 200 hz will also help you hear the snare better after compressing with magneto and others.
 
First, lemme say that I don't think that Magneto ever really lives up to its promise. That plugin left my toolkit after about 2 tries.

Second, lemme just say that Bombfactory is your friend.

Lately, I've been running stuff I really want to sound nasty through the Bombfactory "1176" plugin. Set it at 4:1 or 8:1, the attack time all the way down, and the release time all the way up (either that, or it's the exact opposite, I'm not sure I remember it correctly right now). Then adjust the input and output dials until it sounds right. This really adds some pleasant beef and distortion to your sound. On top of that, I've found using a couple stereo sends with the Bombfactory SansAmp plugin, and sending a little bit of the drums through one and the guitars/bass through another works wonders for clean mixes. If you have the processing power, use one as a vocal send too.

Also, if you have a joemeek channel strip laying around (a vc3/vc6/mq3 etc.) you can use them for great outboard processing. Nothing crunches and fattens a bass or vocal track better than the joemeek with heavy compression and the input gain cranked to 3 or 4 o'clock.

Remember that once you decide your stuff sounds too clean, anything is fair game, and it's ok to forget all of your preconceived ideas about proper mixing.
 
These are some GREAT suggestions and I plan on trying each one. Thanks so much. As for the Bombfactory plugins, I am interested. However I don't think they come in the VST format. Does anyone know if there is a DirectX or MAS plugin wrapper for Cubase? Thanks. Keep the suggestions comin'!
-teddy
 
Damn, I never realized they were only for Pro Tools and MAS until just this moment. Ouch. Sorry. I think some of the PSP stuff can work in a pinch too. Universal Audio also makes a lot of similar plugins, but I think they only run on their special card.
 
Check out the PSP vintagewarmer. I think out of all the "tape saturation" plug-ins, that is by far the most realistic sounding. there are plenty of adjustments that can be made to give a sound you maybe looking for. It's also a kick ass limiter when used in that fashion. download a the demo and check it out if you get a chance. They have two formats for a MAC: VST and MAS.

here's the link
http://www.pspaudioware.com/

hope that helps,
Brandon
 
post a clip if you can so we get an idea of where you're coming from and maybe other things that may help to get the sound you're looking for.

Brandon
 
If you can find anyway to mix on an analog board by bussing out of cubase you might have some better results. You would have the ability to overdrive a mixer channel if you needed it and add outboard effects or rerecord stuff through different amps.

You could rent a mixer for a week for not too much cash.
 
unfortunately i'm at school and my stuff is back at home. but school's almost out!!! so when i get back, mixing something down for you guys will be a high priority. i like the idea of running the drums through a guitar/keyboard amp. i also have a joemeek vc1q, which i plan on feeding the bass through. i actually recorded the bass through the avalon di, so you'd think it would have a good sound. well, it does, but not THE sound i really want.
i also plan on rerecording some of the guitars. i have access to (not as cool as owning one though!) a fender deluxe reverb, a vibrolux blackface from the 60s, and a few others. god knows why i haven't used them yet... though, believe it or not, the sound i got outta my peavey keyboard amp was a great punchy clean sound. i'm gonna keep those paticular tracks....
anyways, any other suggestions? i'm open to rerecording (from stratch) pretty much everything but drums. anyone have experience running, say, the kik out of the soundcard and into a bass amp and then running it back to the puter? any sorta weird ass techniques you guys come across that get rockin sounds? thanks a bunch!!!!
-teddy
 
hey, you've discovered one of the great (and often overlooked) fundamentals of recording!

if the tracks sound bad in the mix, just accept you screwed up and re-record them. seriously, this makes it SO much easier (and way truer-sounding) than applying massive amounts of eq, compression, etc.... in the mix in an attempt to salvage a bad take.

one of those fenders cranked with a 57 on it through that vc1q of yours should SMOKE, and you can definitely get a good emo-ish sound out of it (I believe both guitarists from death cab for cutie use fender twin reverbs).

just keep at it man! when you get it right, it will be WORTH IT.
 
charger said:
Also, if you have a joemeek channel strip laying around (a vc3/vc6/mq3 etc.) you can use them for great outboard processing. Nothing crunches and fattens a bass or vocal track better than the joemeek with heavy compression and the input gain cranked to 3 or 4 o'clock.
Click to expand...

I second that idea.
 
any experiences getting really driving, biting vocal sounds? i'm sure i could saturate the sound with some joemeek compression. any other suggestions?
 
everything sounds clean, sterile! i want to develop a sound for this record and polished/clean are not high on my list of priorities. i want an aggressive sound -- not necessarily like early iggy pop, but not far from his record's spirit.
Click to expand...


I'd try very light compression, rather than more compression. When you compress something you squash the dynamics, make it more smooth and radio-friendly.

If you need to make it louder, I'd try some small amounts of limiting.

If it needs to be punchier. I'd apply light compression to the low end only, when mastering (using a multi-band compressor).

Amping the drums does sound cool.

I'd mix in some room mics (but I think you said you already tracked it), especially if it was recorded in a less than studio quality room.

It would be easier to make decisions if we heard an example of what you have so far and then work from there. When I read what you said up above, I'm thinking of old punk records, something like minor threat or operation ivy. By what others suggest, it seems they want to make your recording cleaner...

-Sal
 
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