again- guitar recording help

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You are quite the a-- and a f---in know it all. What he likes and what you like are two different things. He asked for help, not Criticism. Listen to Smash Mouths "Might as well be walking on the Sun".

whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa

listen to smash mouth? are you outta your fuckin mind?

:eek:

i've always wondered how OMC got their guitar sound on the 1996 hit "How Bizzare." Problem is, I can't get past 0:26 without vomiting a little bit in my mouth.
 
It's funny how Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, Duane Allman, Buddy Guy, Carlos Santana, Mark Knopfler, Stevie Ray Vaughn and a dozen others never needed to double their lines.

Oh yeah...they played music...

:D

G.
 
It's funny how Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, Duane Allman, Buddy Guy, Carlos Santana, Mark Knopfler, Stevie Ray Vaughn and a dozen others never needed to double their lines.

Oh yeah...they played music...

:D

G.

eh... carlos santana? he don't make music. he makes noodles.

:D
 
i think the problems are the sm58, its bound to give a middly messy sound, using a better mic with a higher frequency range will help.
A sm58 will only give you a middly messy sound when it's recording a middly messy sound and a mic with a higher freq range will do the same. Fix your source and you won't find that problem with a 58.
 
eh... carlos santana? he don't make music. he makes noodles.

:D
LOL. Yeah, he is a bit...er...out there at times. But you gotta admit, whether you like his style and his style of music or not, that he knows how to make that PRS (or a Paul, FTM) emote, and that he knows how to get a fat tone without having to resort to studio tricks.

And before someone jumps on Clapton, yeah for much of his career studio tone was very thin. But give the "From The Cradle" album a listen and you'll find *fat* all over the place.

NYMorningstar said:
A sm58 will only give you a middly messy sound when it's recording a middly messy sound and a mic with a higher freq range will do the same. Fix your source and you won't find that problem with a 58.
Funny you should mention that, 'star. Just this past weekend I was talking with an acoustic guitar playing buddy - one who has a very good ear that I trust - that he recently packed up his v69 and actually started working with an SM58. I mentioned how counter-intuitive that was, and he agreed that would normally be on the bottom of his list of suggestions he would give anybody, but he apparently found a match and a method for which he says he's getting great results.

I haven't heard the stuff yet myself, and I gotta talk with him more about this when I get a chance; but like I say, the guy has a good ear as both a musician and an engineer so I have no reason to disbelieve him. It just goes to show that you never know...

G.
 
It just goes to show you that there's really no prescribed method when it comes to recording. Ears are more valuable than words.
 
LOL. Yeah, he is a bit...er...out there at times. But you gotta admit, whether you like his style and his style of music or not, that he knows how to make that PRS (or a Paul, FTM) emote, and that he knows how to get a fat tone without having to resort to studio tricks.

Truth. It's funny... when we talk about things like lowering the gain when recording distorted guitars and reminding peoples not to scoop their mids... we're not really talking about how to record a good distorted guitar tone, we're talking about getting a good guitar tone. i think that comes from paying close attention to the sound that's coming out of your amp, especially when you're yanked to stage volume.

the guitar tone on my recordings is the only thing i'm ever happy with. because from the get-go, i like my guitar tone. i don't remind myself to lower the gain or bump my mids or lower my presence (suck) knob or whathaveyou, because i'm not vomiting rap-rock fizz all over my apartment.

the great slipperman, in recording distorted guitars from hell, never talks about any of that shit. the first thing he says it to get the guitar sound in the room. if that your tone ain't the bees knees coming through your amp, you're gonna be hard-pressed to fix it with mic placement, room mics, prayer to eastern deities, or any of these 'studio tricks' we're talking about.

we've all been there. go to a show on a tuesday night and drink 9 beers while watching a couple of shitty rock bands play. hear some kid ripping face on a chinese telecaster copy running through a behringer 'vintage distortion' pedal (everything dimed) connected to a peavey 100w solid state combo with crackly input jacks trebs 10 bass 10 mids 0.

fizz.

then, drink another nine beers and convince yourself buy the kid's demo for two bucks after the show.

let your girlfriend (the hairy one you just met at the bar) drive home. pop it in the c.d. player.

hmmm... the guitar on this record is a bit... fizzy. i bet it's because they recorded it in their grandma's basement.

of course. that must be it.



ps. eric clapton was much better when he was on drugs. :eek:
 
It just goes to show you that there's really no prescribed method when it comes to recording. Ears are more valuable than words.

From an artistic viewpoint this can be true, but there are tracking technicalities (basically rules learned through experience) that that when understood result in superior outputs. recording guitar is no exception.
 
From an artistic viewpoint this can be true, but there are tracking technicalities (basically rules learned through experience) that that when understood result in superior outputs. recording guitar is no exception.
Yep... start with a good musician playing a good guitar through a good amp, get an exellent session recorded through good mics into good pre's onto a good medium, and you are more than half way there.


Who reserected this thread, anyhow?
 
Yep... start with a good musician playing a good guitar through a good amp, get an exellent session recorded through good mics into good pre's onto a good medium, and you are more than half way there.


Who reserected this thread, anyhow?

Who knows?

I meant that more in the way that aside from developed common sense regarding doing things(which in the end are just understanding how to exploit and in some form control acoustic phenomena), you can't be afraid to mic an acoustic guitar with an SM58 or record a snare drum with a dark bassy mic just to experiment, rejecting what you may know to be true most of the time, because sometimes that's what needs to be done and if you didn't step outside the box for that moment, you might end up with something inferior despite your knowledge and skill.
 
we've all been there. go to a show on a tuesday night and drink 9 beers while watching a couple of shitty rock bands play. hear some kid ripping face on a chinese telecaster copy running through a behringer 'vintage distortion' pedal (everything dimed) connected to a peavey 100w solid state combo with crackly input jacks trebs 10 bass 10 mids 0.
But that's jjst it. Give that rig to any of the names I just mentioned and it would sound great...or maybe more accurately, you'd realize the next morning that the performance sounded great and that you had no idea what the guitar sounded like. And didn't care.

Think about it. I'll bet you the better the time you had at that bar listening to a band, the less you actually remember the "sound" of any one single instrument...outside of whatever sound came form the playing style itself.

Like I said around here somewhere just a few days ago, "tone" or "sound" comes from one's playing, not from the hardware they use. And a related corollary: the more one goes through their day concerned about "sound" or "tone", the worse it's going to sound; just play the goddamned thing and the sound will take care of itself. ;)

G.
 
Like I said around here somewhere just a few days ago, "tone" or "sound" comes from one's playing, not from the hardware they use.

hum, I hear this said often, and it just seems silly to me. It's the total package. The person and the equipment. If it's just in the hands, then why do renowned violinist seek the most expensive Stradivari Violins... if it's all in the hands. The instrument becomes an extension of the player and is just as important. no different with gtr tone.
 
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hum, I hear this said often, and it just seems silly to me. It's the total package. The person and the equipment. If it's just in the hands, then why do renowned violinist seek the most expensive Stradivari Violins... if it's all in the hands. The instrument becomes an extension of the player and is just as important. no different with gtr tone.
It's just like quality engineers and their gear. People often ask the same question; if the gear is not so important, then why do the best engineers have the best gear? And the real answer is because they have the skill to use the stuff well, and they use the stuff well to take their work that extra 5%. But it's still 95% in their hands.

It's also just like the story with mastering; these all follow the same theme. Quality mastering, like a fine hand car detailing, has the greatest impact and the most use on the mixes that one would think needs it the least. A Blue Coral car waxing is going to have much greater impact on a brand-new BMW M7 in the showroom than it will on a rusty old '72 Pinto.

These musicians pay big money for their instruments a) because thy can ;), b) because they actually know how to take advantage of such instruments, and c) because they know they have already developed their sound via their technique, and they're picking the stuff that will take that sound the extra 5% of the way.

Give me a Stradivarius, it sure won't make me sound a thing like Itshak Perlman. It probably won't even sound like a Stradivarius. OTOH, give Itshak Perlman a West Virginian fiddle covered in coal dust, and ihe'll still bring you tears from beauty.

And, to put a fine point on it, it's not just the *sound*, it's the caring about the *sound*. You ever notice that the better the musician or the better a guy *sounds*, the less you hear them talk about or worry about the *sound*? And I'm not just talking the Nashville Cats and the superstars; I'm talking about those guys sitting at the bar waiting their turn on jam night.

Watch them set up their gear at the beginning. You'll have two guys; one who spends 3 minutes tuning his strings and loosening his fingers, and then goes and waits his turn. He's usually the one with the black nylon shoulder strap. Then you have the guy with the UV-dyed snake skin shoulder strap who spends a half hour up there setting up his half-dozen pedals, and fine tuning the knobs on his heads and his guitars, hitting power chords left and right until you just want to rip the AC cord for his amp out of the wall before he has finally dialed in just the "sound" he wants. You want odds on which one will actually sound better? Let's just say it's almost never SnakeBoy.

G.
 
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It's just like quality engineers and their gear.

I disagree... it's nothing like mixing and mastering. Playing an instrument and the player and instrument becoming as one has little resemblance.

the tone exuding from the speaker can enhance or destroy the players mood, feel and execution. they inextricably linked and feel on each other.
 
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I disagree... it's nothing like mixing and mastering. Playing an instrument and the player and instrument becoming as one has little resemblance.
When's the last time that you saw a player who spent all day fretting about his "sound" come even close to "becoming as one with their instrument"? (Hint: It rhymes with "clever").

Or to look at it the other way, when's the last time that you saw a performer come out of his zone after a lightning-in-a-bottle, one-with-the-instrument performance and hear the audience complain that they just wished the amp tone could have been a little better? The stupid f*ing amp tone is the last thing on their mind at that point.

You actually said it best. It's all in the hands, and the instrument is nothing but an extension of the hands.

Without the hands you have nothing. The same cannot be said of the instrument.

EDIT: I'm not saying that there is zero feedback between the instrument and the player. Sure there is. And a sweet, sweet sound can help inspire a sweet, sweet sound from the player, you're right about that. But the player still has to be capable of that sound; the instrument will not make him a better player. (The player, OTOH can make the instrument a better-sounding instrument.)

There's an old addage I'm sure that most folks here have hears in one form or another; "Play the music, not the instrument." Fretting too much about the sound of the instrument is giving short shrift to the music itself. Depending too heavily upon the "tone" of the instrument to inspire you, instead of actually getting your inspiration from the music itself, is, IMHO/IME putting one's priorities in the wrong place. If the music doesn't inspire a performance, the sound of the instrument is meaningless.

G.
 
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look, i made a scientific illustration:
TONECHART.jpg
 
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