again- guitar recording help

[BushmasterM4]

Actually sounds much better,
but still got that "air" whivh hearts in the ears.
actually what kind of EQ did u do?

also,
been listening to your records on your site.
how did u get that guitar sound? what kind of amp etc?

I mic just like BK a few posts up said and showed with the picture. I use a Peavey JSX head into a Peavey XXX cab. I also use an EpiJr at times, a Peavey Stereo Chorus, a Pig Nose, a Marshal Mini Stack, or I use my Boss GT8 directly into my mixer. I can get basically any sound I want out of that thing. You have to set it up properly. But once done, it is nice. If I posted a guitar track of all those amps and a few GT8 settings, no one could tell the difference, even Mr. NL5 with his golden ears

 

[NL5]

You are quite the a-- and a f---in know it all. What he likes and what you like are two different things. He asked for help, not Criticism. Listen to Smash Mouths "Might as well be walking on the Sun". That sound was acomplished by playing into a little amp with a speaker that was torn. Very distorted, and by itself it sounds weird. But that sound fits the song perfectly. Aveil, the sound is fine. Also remember, by the time other instruments are added, it may fit the song just right. As far as what I did to it. Its was more than just louder. Guess some people dont listen very well. If you were here Aveil, I have no doubt I could get it sounding the way you want it.

Did you read his post? He still is unhappy with the sound. Sorry, I tried to help him capture a better sound to start with instead of trying to fix it in the mix. So, I'll leave you to fix his problem, you seem to be doing so well........

it just sounds louder...

Oooops another a-- and f--in know it all.

I put a smiley next to my post as it wasn't meant as a slam, just trying to say get it right to start, but again, you seem to have a firm grasp on things......

And one last thing, you have never heard me claim to have "golden ears" - I am no different than anyone here......he was unhappy with his sound (before and AFTER your help), and I just tried to help him get the sounds he was after.

 

[danny.guitar]

i dont get the too much distortion/gain comments...thats just taste..listen to sabbath and you will know that you can have it all.

i would venture into the world of severe eq and double mike ...one straight on and one way off.

The difference is their distortion sounds better. And there's still usually not as much as you think you're hearing.

 

[BushmasterM4]

Did you read his post? He still is unhappy with the sound. Sorry, I tried to help him capture a better sound to start with instead of trying to fix it in the mix. So, I'll leave you to fix his problem, you seem to be doing so well........



Oooops another a-- and f--in know it all.

I put a smiley next to my post as it wasn't meant as a slam, just trying to say get it right to start, but again, you seem to have a firm grasp on things......

And one last thing, you have never heard me claim to have "golden ears" - I am no different than anyone here......he was unhappy with his sound (before and AFTER your help), and I just tried to help him get the sounds he was after.

Sorry, In the spirit of things I apologize. But it came across you were trying to change his sound and what he likes. You have to agree that one recorded sound will take on a whole new life when mixed with others. I was just trying to point out he had options if he could not get the sound he was after out of his amp and mics and room combo. And if I polished that turd long enough it would shine. Once again, Sorry for the harsh words. Happy Holidays.

 

[BushmasterM4]

The difference is their distortion sounds better. And there's still usually not as much as you think you're hearing.

A very good case in point is Deep Purples "Highway Star". If you listen through a stereo system, it has a fair amount of distortion . Put on headphones and pan to the left. Blackmores' guitar sounds pretty light. Pan right, same for other guitars. But together the sum adds to a very cool tone. True there is usually less.

 

[bkkornaker]

now that ive read your original post on how you want that "clearer professional recorded guitar sound".....heres what you need to do.....

1- see my pic above about the mic placement on the speaker, and place one mic exactly as shown, ....and add a second mic (close to the grill/same distance as the first mic) and place it closer to the dust cap. This will get you a wider frequency range, and capture both all lows, and well as highs.

2- record your guitar tracks twice. Make sure you tweak the amp settings so the 2nd recorded take has a different tone. Pan one guitar track about 85% left/right, and the double take about 75% left/right. This will thicken your sound, and widen it a bit....but not too much.

3- Post EQ......to brighten the sound and make it 'glossy sheen pro sounding'.....you should really add some 8k to your post EQ, this will "glass it up" a bit.

4- sit back and enjoy your newfound sound...............

 

[zazz]

i was wondering if two mikes could go some way towards a sound......one could be positioned to get bassy as hell and the other hard on.....and then mix at ur leisure.........personally double tracking for me is like over production ..not real.

 

[bkkornaker]

double tracking is "real" in the pro recording realm.......its done almost all the time.

if your not double tracking your guitars, it could be the big reason why your not getting that "pro" sound your trying to achieve.

try it........if its not your cup of tea........dont do it. Its all about trail and error at this point.

 

[zazz]

double tracking is "real" in the pro recording realm.......its done almost all the time.

if your not double tracking your guitars, it could be the big reason why your not getting that "pro" sound your trying to achieve.

try it........if its not your cup of tea........dont do it. Its all about trail and error at this point.

depends if by "pro" u mean the california sound....

 

[bkkornaker]

cali, NY, texas, iraq........it dont matter. You dont have to double track.....but it will thicken the sound and make it sound bigger.....

 

[Jammer429]

that is not bad it could be fixed with alittle eq work but yea move the mic a little closer to the center of the speaker back the gain off a bit and you should have it by the way are you close micing it?

 

[VSpaceBoy]

For me, I find my sweet spot is about 4" off the grill, aimed about where they have shown there in the pic.

Everytime I record guitar, I do the same thing. I get the amp sounding exactly how I want to record it. Then I play the main riff into my looper pedal. Then I let the riff rock out on its own while I wear noise canceling headphones and then start moving the mic around until I hear the most clarity in the headphones. Then lock down the mic and press record.

I usually dump below 120hz with a high pass and *possibly* scoop a little around 280-300 to clean it up some more.

but thats just me

 

[tremoloking]

i'd say...more bass on your amp. possibly a mic that captures more bass. compression to make it sound 'chunkier'. a neat trick is to record the sound of your pick hitting the strings at the same time you're recording the amp. adds some 'twang' and may just give you the definition you need.

another trick: record direct at the same time and mix the two tracks to taste. the direct track will have tons more bass. or eq to taste...overall, i find that too much distortion from a pedal doesn't always translate well into recording. often it's better to back it up a little.
or use two amps, one clean(er) and one distorted. again, mix to taste.

use your imagination!

 

[tremoloking]

double tracking is "real" in the pro recording realm.......its done almost all the time.

if your not double tracking your guitars, it could be the big reason why your not getting that "pro" sound your trying to achieve.

try it........if its not your cup of tea........dont do it. Its all about trail and error at this point.

i second that. the sound you're hearing on records is almost DEFINITELY double tracked. probably with different amps, possibly even different guitars.

 

[hardwire666]

One of the hardest things for me to learn when recording my guitar tracks was less is more. I used to get the wratchety, scratching sound too. Stepping back the distortion amount was the best thing I ever did.

What it sounds like you're missing in your mix is some bottom end. You need some bass guitar in that track, give it a little fuzz to complament you guitar track. Also DOUBLE UP YOUR GUITAR, I dont care if any one says it's cheating. If it sounds good It sounds good end of story. This also alows you to record with distortion/gain on the frequencies you want, and not the ones that normally cause that ear splitting scratchy noise resulting in that crisp dirty tone. Once you double the track you are effectivly multipliying that sound by 2. Play with the levels a bit, a little Eq'ing, and you get some sweet sounding stuff.

Here is a portion of a song I'm working on right now. It's far from complete, but should give you a good idea as to what I am talking about.

Guitar was recorded direct in clean. I used iZotopes Trash for compression, post and pre filtering, distortion, and amp modeling. All rythm Guitar tracks are doubled up. Bass is DI as well, and also uses Trash. I also made a point to EQ my guitars to fit with in a certain range. Example, Bass guitar is mostly low end, light mids, and some mid highs. Guitar has a cut on the low end. this way they are filling thier intended range of sound, and not cluttering up my mix. Also when it comes to EQ'ing it doesnt take much to make a world of differance. Also Every thing is done on my PC.

Basicaly what I do now is the opposite of when I started. Whe i first started I would start with a lot, and chisle a way to get it right endig up with a horribly over produced sound that was hard to work with. Now I slowly add a bit at a time, and this for me has yeilded better results. Hope this helpd some.

 

[hoops]

There are alot of great suggestions here. If you keep trying all of them and your still not happy. It maybe time to try other amps or guitars or both. You maybe striving to get a sound that is not possible with the guitar gear you own. If you have some friends that play guitar maybe borrow theirs and try some different gear. You could also try renting some.

Everytime I record guitar, I do the same thing. I get the amp sounding exactly how I want to record it. Then I play the main riff into my looper pedal. Then I let the riff rock out on its own while I wear noise canceling headphones and then start moving the mic around until I hear the most clarity in the headphones. Then lock down the mic and press record.

That is a great trick if you are recording by yourself. Now I have to get a looper pedal.

 

[TyphoidHippo]

a neat trick is to record the sound of your pick hitting the strings at the same time you're recording the amp. adds some 'twang' and may just give you the definition you need.

Whoa... I've never heard of that, and I'm fascinated by the idea! - How do you usually go about recording that? Some kind of clip-on condensor that you can position near where the picking is happening or something?

I guess you'd have to get the guitarist completely isolated from the amp, huh? Otherwise a mic trying to pick up the (barely audible when NOT amplified) sound of the pick on the strings would totally get drowned out by the amp. Or perhaps just have the guitarist play the track non-amplified and record that sound that way?

Please share more about this idea - it's one of the few new techniques I've heard of in years, and can immediately imagine possibilities here (getting more percussive attacks, etc. etc.)

or use two amps, one clean(er) and one distorted. again, mix to taste.

This technique never fails - get a couple of really good crunchy takes out of something like a JCM-2000, and then stack them with some sizzly Dual Recto takes. Works every single time (for me, at least - ymmv of course).

 

[elly-d]

alot of good stuff said already, as always and a few minor confrontations too

i think the problems are the sm58, its bound to give a middly messy sound, using a better mic with a higher frequency range will help.

the distortion on the original file sounds like a horrible digital pedal i used to have, don't use it. a normal boss distortion pedal would do fine if you want the over the top treatment, you don't need the metal or thrash ones.

and if you have an eq unit or plug in just add whatever you can't get through your mic. it still sounds like it needs alot more top end. incidently your vocals stood out like a sore thumb, as they where recorded much better that the guitar or drums.

keep at it

 

[357mag]

Pedals are certainly not garbage. I've always used either an overdrive or distortion pedal in front of my amp, and my tone is killer. Amp distortion just by itself tends to be rather raw sounding. A pedal can make your sound sweeter and will help you sculpt your tone.

 

[mrhotapples]

If you like how the guitar sounds through the amplifier in the room, it's all micing, don't worry about using less or more anything. Stand somewhere in the room where you like the sound the best and put a mic there at ear level, and move the bitch closer to the speaker until it sounds how you thought it sounded there. Give yourself some perspective.