After a bottle of wine...

Mhcapa1

New member
1st off - This is an awesome site bc ppl are honest and they tell you the good bad and ugly.
So I was told I didn't sing loud enough, was too shy, and should open up.
Here's me after a bottle of wine ?
No worrying about the neighbors during this recording.

BTW - any singing I do in front of ppl is either in front of real songwriters or ladies under the stars lol so ya
Don't wanna sound like an idiot hahahaha

Any feedback that can contribute to improvement - thank you
If I just totally suck - ya tell me - seriously...-
tell me. Promise will not be butt hurt over it
Thx guys

Will get to reviewing others posts soon to contribute to the cause

Did I mention this sites great?
Thx
☮️

Mh


Vocaroo | Voice message
 
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andrushkiwt

New member
I'd put it under the common scenario of "just needs work". Clearly, you understand pitch, but your technique needs work, especially at the start of words. But the tone is there and you try to reach the correct notes. If you keep practicing, you'll be alright.

What song is that?
 

kickingtone

New member
Yes, your pitch intention seems fine to me, but there seems to be instability in execution, especially with your onsets.

Have you learned and practiced "breath support"? Some of the onset issues I am hearing are typical of lack of breath support, as if you are not retaining enough air pressure in your lungs as you sing, and you find yourself having to subconsciously build the pressure quickly at the last moment, which is far too late. Then you may hear a fraction of a second break before your voice actually comes through, and the onset will sound "pushed", destabilizing some of the following notes.

I don't know if it is a deliberate style, but the sort of thing I am referring to is...

"I'll be leaving" -----> "er-I'll be leaving" (it sounds as if the "I'll" got stuck and suddenly released. It doesn't sound controlled to me.)
"Go to sleep" -----> "G--o to sleep"
"Candle light" -----> "ker-andle light"

I appreciate that it is similar to a particular kind of style (a deliberate throw of the voice on onset), but you need breath support to stop it from collapsing and then getting pushed through. If you are going for that style, I think you will find that it is still legato (no break).
 

Mhcapa1

New member
Just needs work...
Huh
Ok
At Start of words..
Ok
Huh...
Ok focus on that and hitting right tone and notes I guess?
Huh
Sounds like a lot
Hahahah
Man maybe oughta just focus on writing then hahaha
 

Mhcapa1

New member
Kingtone - man this site is awesome
Y'all sound like pros

"Have you learned and practiced "breath support"?"

What is that?
How do I learn?

I do feel like ... IDK how to explain it... Just at certain points being like 'o no.. I need to gasp 4 air so I can sing' hahaha
Maybe that's what u mean?



"Then you may hear a fraction of a second break before your voice actually comes through, and the onset will sound "pushed", destabilizing some of the following notes.

I don't know if it is a deliberate style, but the sort of thing I am referring to is...

"I'll be leaving" -----> "er-I'll be leaving" (it sounds as if the "I'll" got stuck and suddenly released. It doesn't sound controlled to me.)
"Go to sleep" -----> "G--o to sleep"
"Candle light" -----> "ker-andle light" "


That's pretty deliberate... It just comes out easier like that and doesn't seem to sound as lame I guess.
With some practice could prob sing without doing that if u think it sounds dumb like that


"If you are going for that style, I think you will find that it is still legato (no break)."

Ok.. honestly you lost me the 2nd half of that sentence.
What does "you will find that it is still legato (no break)." mean?

Apologize for my ignorance...
Appreciate yalls advice.
 

Mhcapa1

New member
Ok sounds like I should practice and spend a few weeks getting better..

So ... Ok
Gotta qstn -
If I sing exactly like this tmrw night to a girl... I mean... Is that a bad idea?
???

What do y'all think?

If so I'll hold off and focus on recommendations u guys r putting forth first.
 

kickingtone

New member
I do feel like ... IDK how to explain it... Just at certain points being like 'o no.. I need to gasp 4 air so I can sing' hahaha
Maybe that's what u mean?

Yes, breath support is a technique that ensures you always have enough air pressure in your lungs to make the sound that you want. It is a central topic in singing. You only have to google or youtube "breath support" or "diaphragmatic breathing" to learn about it.

There is so much on the topic, that the problem is finding out whom to listen to and whom to ignore. Not all the advice is good, and even good explanations work differently for different people. That is where you are all on your own, and nobody can help you. The choice is yours.

(Videos by Franco Tenelli, a classical tenor, were the first that made sense to me. They may not be easy to follow. He talks of "dynamic opposition of the diaphragm" in his appoggio breathing technique. For whatever reason, it all made sense to me, and a lot of things felt natural and fell into place. I don't use his techniques exactly -- he is a purist, and he sings classical -- but I borrowed and consolidated)

That's pretty deliberate... It just comes out easier like that and doesn't seem to sound as lame I guess.
With some practice could prob sing without doing that if u think it sounds dumb like that

If it is a style, my personal advice in general is, "stick with it". Better to take advice from folk who really "get it". Folk who don't "get it" will try to "fix it" the wrong way. So, hopefully, you'll get more people commenting, to maybe get a better idea of whether you are pulling it off. I think it is definitely a good idea to be able to sing it plain, as well. That way, the style is fully under your control, and you are not being forced into it.

"If you are going for that style, I think you will find that it is still legato (no break)."

Ok.. honestly you lost me the 2nd half of that sentence.
What does "you will find that it is still legato (no break)." mean?

Legato just means that the notes are sung smoothly without a break in the sound. The total opposite would be staccato.

A good example of a "throw" at the onset of words is in the The Bangles - "Manic Monday". The song totally revolves around those two words, and that throw or inflection at the beginning of the word is crucial. Whatever effect it gives -- accusation, complaint, petulance -- the song wouldn't work without it. I know of some sound engineers who wouldn't get it, and would have removed the effect, flattened the note and killed the song (imo). Note that the throw or inflection has no break -- it is sung legato.

There are any number of onset styles, so, whichever you prefer, go for it!

 

Mhcapa1

New member
1st off - kickingtone, thank you for taking the time to write this.

Wow.

Ok
So


Sounds technical
Also sounds like you know what you're talking about
Google and YouTube
Be careful about learning the wrong ways
Have a look at Franco Tenelli for ex
Got it


"The song totally revolves around those two words, and that throw or inflection at the beginning of the word is crucial. Whatever effect it gives -- accusation, complaint, petulance -- the song wouldn't work without it."

Maaan, you just opened my eyes to an artistic way of adding to songs beyond just clever wording, rhythm, music, and instruments by using voice "throws" and similar stuff...
Might seem obvious to others but I didn't really think of thinking through that as an added detail to songs.

I remember taking a class on the music history, and there was this period and a particular composer who basically made a piece of music that used instruments etc to illustrate what it was like to travel down a river...
Was so awesome. It's like if I closed my eyes I could "see" the music, or the river and surroundings, or... IDK how to explain it. It's amazing imo though.
Will see if I can find the guy and the piece. Class was years ago.

But ya.. this stuff about tone of voice or throwing... I guess it's like using it like an instrument to convey more than just the words... Like that guy did with his music... IDK... But this is interesting

Thank you again for taking the time to give that info!

☮️
 

Mhcapa1

New member
BTW

Hahaha

Man... I just listened to my recording again... Sober.

Ya.
I hear what you're talking about with the voice breaking in and out etc
No... I don't always sing like this at all - man... This is what a bottle of wine does?

Dunno if I like it! ?
Sound super drunk lol
Ugh and this a.m. ya... Drinking like that is not the smartest thing to do
For singing or for multiple other reasons
Ugh
 

Mhcapa1

New member
Ok.. so
Hangovers over hah

Sang it again sober to compare

Tried to pay better attention to breathing.
Didn't really feel like I was running out of air as much as before.

The thing with the "throwing of the voice"
...man. It must have become a habit bc I actually have to "think" to NOT do it...
Few times in this recording where I obviously didn't think to not do it and ya...

Man IDK...
Honestly... to me it just sounds like I'm off key or not hitting notes or something. If so I mean... I'm just doing this for kicks really so .. I could put a lot more time into fixing that if it's even possible to fix, but... Ya... IDK

☮️
 

Mhcapa1

New member
Here's the link to "sober version"


If you guys find time to listen thx
If not, you've given me plenty to learn in your previous comments so ya.
Thx guys
☮️


https://vocaroo.com/delete/s15x4FGD8Xq6/cd2b8c704a28a999
 
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kickingtone

New member
Here's the link to "sober version"


If you guys find time to listen thx
If not, you've given me plenty to learn in your previous comments so ya.
Thx guys
☮️


Vocaroo | Voice message

Very noticeably better, man! Much more convincing!

More fluent, and a good, round timbre on those lower notes, with cleaner onsets.

But I can still hear tension or "reaching" on those higher notes. It is not a pitch issue, it just sounds like a breath thing, to me.

I can hear good interpretation and expression in your voice, in breaks and inflections, but I think that you have to TOTALLY convince the listener that it is NO side effect from any technical issues. That means you have to get RIGHT on top of those higher notes, like you have a ton to spare. That way, the listener will associate the artistic nuances with expression, and not technical hitches.

Methinks that there is only one answer to relaxing those higher notes, and it is good "breath support". That can take a while to get right (a few months, perhaps). And you have to achieve it without ruining the expression you have already built into your singing. Don't underestimate the dangers. I have known singers to trash their sound after being told to "start from basics" with a heap of artificial techniques. But I don't think there is any way to get the same round tone on your high notes, without good breath support. The higher you sing, the more important breath support becomes.

Examples:

1.59 "highway"

The break on onset can be caused by lack of breath support. "h" is a telltale indicator. The "h" allows the breath to escape before the vowel sounds. Without good breath support, this causes a problem in singing the vowel, because necessary air pressure has been released. Then the singer will "push" the vowel through, rather than sing it, often with a break between h and vowel.

The break can also be stylistic, though (especially after h). But that works best if the listener is left in no doubt that the singer is right on top of the note. For that to happen, the vowel has to come through with command and control. It is all subconscious. The listener will automatically associate the break with deliberate expression. The slightest technical waver, and the listener will associate it with that and expression is lost.

(In fact, your second clip compared to your first clip (low notes) demonstrates just how you can shift the listener's attention from technique to expression.)

2:01 "see"

The "see" shortly following "highway" has a break "s--ee". Again, slightly higher note, exposing breath support issue. I am not aware of any expression that employs such a break in this case, but I could be wrong.

(Personally, I find the -ee- vowel a bit of a bitch, anyway.)

2:03 "all" gets "pushed".

I am guessing that the "see" and "all" would have been fine, but for the "h" in highway, which stole away your air pressure, until your next breath.
 

andrushkiwt

New member
I'll take that to mean...
"...Just stop dude"
Hahahahahaha

I'm saving this emoticon for future text msgs too btw


Hahahahahah

Sorry, I'm just having a hard time following your posts. You are typing as if you are talking, putting every minor thought down, and it's difficult following your posts. It also makes it seem like you aren't serious about improving your vocals, and if you aren't taking it seriously, why should I?

Another tip, from 30+ years of music experience - get good at music because you love it, not to impress a girl. If you are showcasing your hard work and talent, from the heart, then that is what is attractive. Not faking something or deliberately trying to convince someone of something other than the truth.
 

Mhcapa1

New member
Dude....
...This is awesome...
I know exactly what I'm going to focus on fixing.
...Thank you man!

How can I repay?




Very
noticeably better, man! Much more convincing!

More fluent, and a good, round timbre on those lower notes, with cleaner onsets.

But I can still hear tension or "reaching" on those higher notes. It is not a pitch issue, it just sounds like a breath thing, to me.

I can hear good interpretation and expression in your voice, in breaks and inflections, but I think that you have to TOTALLY convince the listener that it is NO side effect from any technical issues. That means you have to get RIGHT on top of those higher notes, like you have a ton to spare. That way, the listener will associate the artistic nuances with expression, and not technical hitches.

Methinks that there is only one answer to relaxing those higher notes, and it is good "breath support". That can take a while to get right (a few months, perhaps). And you have to achieve it without ruining the expression you have already built into your singing. Don't underestimate the dangers. I have known singers to trash their sound after being told to "start from basics" with a heap of artificial techniques. But I don't think there is any way to get the same round tone on your high notes, without good breath support. The higher you sing, the more important breath support becomes.

Examples:

1.59 "highway"

The break on onset can be caused by lack of breath support. "h" is a telltale indicator. The "h" allows the breath to escape before the vowel sounds. Without good breath support, this causes a problem in singing the vowel, because necessary air pressure has been released. Then the singer will "push" the vowel through, rather than sing it, often with a break between h and vowel.

The break can also be stylistic, though (especially after h). But that works best if the listener is left in no doubt that the singer is right on top of the note. For that to happen, the vowel has to come through with command and control. It is all subconscious. The listener will automatically associate the break with deliberate expression. The slightest technical waver, and the listener will associate it with that and expression is lost.

(In fact, your second clip compared to your first clip (low notes) demonstrates just how you can shift the listener's attention from technique to expression.)

2:01 "see"

The "see" shortly following "highway" has a break "s--ee". Again, slightly higher note, exposing breath support issue. I am not aware of any expression that employs such a break in this case, but I could be wrong.

(Personally, I find the -ee- vowel a bit of a bitch, anyway.)

2:03 "all" gets "pushed".

I am guessing that the "see" and "all" would have been fine, but for the "h" in highway, which stole away your air pressure, until your next breath.
 

Mhcapa1

New member
I understand.
I see how I might've come across like I don't care.
As far as getting good not to impress girls but out of love - ya.. u kno...
I can't really see myself without a 6 string and a notepad in this life, girl by my side or not so...

And hey man, I do appreciate comments and pointers. They're usually good for improving
☮️
 
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Mhcapa1

New member
BTW kingtone - here's the song I mentioned b4 that was composed to musically illustrate trip down a river
....at least I think this is it. If I find textbook at fig out it's a diff 1 will update:
YouTube
 

Mhcapa1

New member
Yeah.. this is it.
So when you mentioned actually using "throwing of the voice" as a tool beyond just the words and Melody etc to evoke emotion, I immediately thought of how this guy used instruments etc to illustrate scenes with music... A voice can be like an instrument imo and I realize now how throwing voice etc can add to a song if used the right way at the right time etc. Will work on breathing and pitch 1st tho.

Here's what that song is supposed to illustrate:
The movement starts with light, rippling figures that represent the emergence of the Moldau River as two mountain springs, one warm and one cold. Water from the springs then combines to become a mighty river, symbolized by a thickly orchestrated, stately theme that recurs periodically throughout the remainder of the work. Farther downstream, the river passes jubilant hunters, portrayed by a horn melody, and then passes a village wedding, signaled by a passage in polka rhythm. The river then enters a gorge where, according to legend, water nymphs—suggested by serene and mysterious melodies—come out to bathe in the moonlight. With the morning light, the main river theme returns, though it soon breaks into tumultuous dissonance as the river enters the St. John’s Rapids. Beyond the white water, the river reaches Prague, where to grand arpeggios of a regal hymn, it flows past the castle Vyšehrad, once the seat of power for Bohemian kings. After fading to a trickle, the piece—and the journey—comes to an unambiguous close with a loud two-chord cadence.
More at The Moldau | symphonic poem by Smetana | Britannica.com


Thx agn guys
BTW kingtone - here's the song I mentioned b4 that was composed to musically illustrate trip down a river
....at least I think this is it. If I find textbook at fig out it's a diff 1 will update:
YouTube
 
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