Advice starting up home studio

[Brendan Murphy]

hello everyone
a few details about me that may affect my questions
my name is brendan ...i live in newcastle australia
i am a soloist musician for a living
i have been playing guitar for 14 years and have no restrictions in my playing
my singing voice is similar to ...if you mix neil finn, elvis presley, neil diamond, elvis costello...the guy from REM
my vocal range is only slightly more than 2 octaves...around F (1st fret on guitar) to G (12th fret)
i have
les paul custom
guild acoustic (beautiful)
fender prosonic amp
marshall jcm800
behringer eurorack 1832fx pro mixer (which i use live...but can double for recording)
jbl eon powered speaker pa system (possibly use as monitors at first)
shure beta87 vocal mikes
3 shure 58s
a few crappy jbl mikes

i have done 1 cd which a friend did for me
but i am a perfectionist and want to take more time over my next cd....so for financial reasons want to do it myself so i can spend hours on a vocal if i want

i want to start the studio from scratch
but i want it to be simple and quality b4 quantity
i was looking for advice on how to go about this and what to look out for
i will record it myself ....but probably mix...and definitely master elsewhere...so quality sound is preferable to tricks
not very confident with drums so that may be recorded elsewhere too
i wanted to stick to PC cause that's where all my experience has been
i have experience with cubase 3.5 but was leaning towards cakewalk sonar cause my last CD was recorded on it and watched it being used
the microphone i'm leaning towards (and why i described my voice) is a RODE classic 2 valve mike
but would also look to record other people too
my talent lies in songwriting and i wish to get my songs out to the world and do them justice
i am not very knowledgable about recording but keen to learn
my budget is $7000-$10 000 australian dollars
i'm looking for any advice on the best system possible
computers...specs...what too look for in compatibility
and because i have nothing i can make whole system compatible
mike...(RODE?)
do i need compressor , mixer etc
soundcard
the computer will be limited to recording use and photoshop for doing cd artwork...and hopefully film editing or video clip editing
thankyou for your help
Brendan
ICQ 85108467

 

[Porter]

Brendan,

I'm just down the road from you... ok, down the M3, about 300klms or so

I'm a singer/songwriter not by profession but by hobby.

I have been playing around with recording music for the past 3 years or so. Playing guitar for the last 12 years, piano for the last 5 and programming other instrument for about 4 years. For the price range you specified, there are a number of options.

Local to Sydney CBD, I've found the cheapest music store to be on initial price (if you know what I mean, is Allans Music
Allans Music .

Here is my set up:

Computer:
P4 1.7Ghz
512Mb RAM (soon to be 1Ghz)
7200rpm 30GB Maxtor Drive (Audio Drive)
5200rpm 10GB Seagate (OS Drive)
Edirol DA-2496

Software:
SONAR 2.2XL
Sound Forge 4.5

Microphones:
Rode NT-2
Rode NT-3
Beringher Dynamic Mic

Instruments:
Maton 225C
Takamine Semi-Acoustic Classical
Squire Telecaster
Kawai CN270 Digital Piano
Roland JV-1010 sound module
SR-16 Drum Machine
Marshall Valvestate 30Watt amp

I solely use Sonar for recording. For me it have everything that I needed. The discussion group here on the board is excelent and gives you answers to and questions faster than Cakewalk can.

Things I'd look out for.... computer system.

System. I'd look at getting spec'ed something higher than what I have (as my system is about the base of what you can buy these days). I could start a whole debate here about Intel vs. AMD vs. Celeron. Personally I'd stick with Intel. Operating System, I'd use Windows XP.. you can tweak it for audio performance, which I have done. (I've set up 2 hard drives for my OS which I swap between as to wether I want to do general work or audio work)

RAM. You can get away with 256MB RAM, 512 would be standard, but if you can afford it go 1Ghz (all the RAM might cost you is $250 AUD).

Hard Drives. Look at getting 7200 rpm HDD's with a fast seek time. My 30GB HDD has a faster seek time that a 120GB HDD. Depending on how much audio you will be doing, I'd probably get a 80GB+ for Audio data. For an OS drive speed doesn't as such matter. I'm running a 10GB drive.. it holds my OS, and all the programs I use..

Input Device. This is a whole new can of worms... there are soooo many options. I chose the Edirol DA-2496 . When I was looking around, the guy at Allans suggested it. He believes that the converters in it are better than the DIGI001. It had 2 Inputs with Phantom power, which was all I needed and had 6 balanced/unbalanced 1/4" inputs and 8 1/4" inputs. It also has MIDI I/O, Digital I/O, World Clock, Headphones. It connects to the PC via a PCI card.

Microphones. Personally I like to buy Rode (support the local industry cause they are made about 10 klms from where I live and are bloody good mic's). I got the NT3 when I had my old recorder (a Roland VS-840) because it was a condenser that didn't require phantom power. It runs off a 9 Volt Battery. I got the NT-2 because I wanted to get a good quality all round Large Condenser Microphone. The Beringher I bought a long time ago and it suits my wifes voice... so I use it when I record her.

Most stores will let you try out the Microphones in store. I know Sound Devices have a large selection of Microphones on display for testing. Venue Music also does, but not as many.

If you buy SONAR XL, it comes with the Sonic Timeworks compressor which is very sweet. The 'mixer' is actually part of the program. Also SONAR will let you import a mpeg or avi and syncronise audio data to the clip, the save the clip with the audio data.

That's a start... I hope it helps,

Porter

 

[alfalfa]

Brendan, if you dont get enough responses, try posting more specific questions in the relevant forum rather than such a large general post eg ask about mics in the mic forum, compressors and fx in the rack, soundcards and computers here. Also try the search function - the same questions and answers get posted on this forum week after week.

I'll try to help out with the soundcard and computer. If you are reasonably confident with PCs then go ahead and build your own. A safe option is to use an intel cpu with a motherboard (eg ASUS or Intel) that uses an intel chipset for guaranteed compatibility with all soundcards. There are many AMD/Via chipset combinations that work well but you have to do your research to be sure it will work for your setup. When constructing a pc for a studio, I tend to look for stability, compatibility and quietness over fastest performance or lowest cost. Eg for a harddrive go for a Seagate Barracuda V as it is the quietest (by far) while still being acceptably fast. Try Zalman for silent CPU fans and power supplies. You really dont want to hear your PC noise in your recordings or annoying you when you are mixing.

For a soloist musician using a sequencer to record one track at a time, you will only need a basic 2input soundcard. These include the M-Audio Audiophile, Echo Mia and MiaMidi, Terratec EWX24/96 and 6Fire/6FireLT. The Echo has the best measured sound quality of these cards and has balanced inputs and outputs (to match the balanced i/o of your mixer) but basically they all do a similar job and cost around A$400 - 500. If you want to record drums with multiple mics and tracks then you will need a card with more inputs and it will cost significantly more.

For useful soundcard reviews go to www.sospubs.co.uk and do a search for these brands.

For a good online Aussie music store try:
www.musiclab.net.au

For your sequencer go with the one you feel comfortable using.

Regarding your microphones I will just say that Rode stuff is priced very competitively in Australia compared to imports like Studio Projects and Marshall MXL etc. Pricing affects peoples opinion on Rode mics on this forum as they are relatively dearer overseas.

ps you might want to fill in your location on your profile so we remember you are from australia.

 

[Richard Monroe]

I'm a great believer in the front end of the signal chain. I can't advise you on computer stuff, as I don't do computer recording. Basically, you need the best mics and the best preamps you can afford plugged into whatever you use to record. You want available compression, which you use as little as possible, and a good source of reverb. If you record with a computer, the compression and reverb can be supplied by plugins.
Mics- Rode classic is a perfectly good choice by all accounts for vocals, but be advised that some singers just sound good (or bad) through certain mics, so make sure it sounds good on your voice. Try several different songs. I find that a different song often sounds best through a different mic. Most folks prefer small diaphragm condensers for acoustic guitar (NT5 comes to mind), but I am in the significant minority that prefers to record acoustic with a workhorse large diaphragm mic with a small housing. For cheap, Studio projects B-1 works, but I've had my best luck with AKG C414B-ULS. For electric, you can use the same mic, and the C414 is excellent for that due to it's 2 stage pad. It's 2 stage bass cut can be very helpul also with boomy acoustics. Others prefer a good dynamic for mic'ing electric. For cheap, Shure SM57 works just fine, but I prefer Shure SM7B or Sennheiser MD441.
For a preamp, get the best one you can afford , and if you plan stereo mic'ing, get one with 2 channels. The best ones will really break the bank. Consider Grace Design 101 for just one channel. I don't know of any killer Australian preamps, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. Frankly, I use 3. I use DBX386 when I want it to sound just the way it sounds, Joemeek twinQ when I want to gloss over something that's a little rough, and Avalon AD2022 when I want to add something to a track to actually make it sound better than it sounds. Best of luck.-Richie

 

[Swede]

Monitoring is really important. If I were you the first thing I'd do would be to buy a soundcard (an m-audio or something) then I'd, look into buying a set of monitors like Yorkvilles (based on recommendations from this BBS) or Studiophiles. Monitors are your ears! I know, since I've mixed on my home stereo for the past two years and It's not something I recommend.

 

[BluesMeister]

Alfalfa,

Great posts. Well done that man.

--
BluesMeister

 

[SteveMcB]

If I were in your situation, I'd seriously consider Pro Tools... If you want to mix and/or track drums in seperate facilities, you need a system that's compatible with the system in the studio you use, otherwise there are delays (which you pay for) with having to go through the sometimes lenghty and laborious process of transferring files between different systems, whereas with Pro tools, many many studios have it, and you can just burn a CD of the session and open it up and there it is (as I understand it). Which system you choose depends on your needs.

If you want to have the ability to track multiple instuments at once or record drums at home, you would likely need at least the digi 001. If not, the M-box may suit you well.

You also need a good front end (decent mics, preamp, compressor), and good monitoring - at least one set of good enclosed headphones for tracking vocals with, and monitor speakers (so you can listen back to rough mixes while you're tracking, hear the bass when it's going direct etc - although if you fully plan to mix at another facility, you could get away without!).

So below are my suggestions:

Mics:
SM58's you have - use on vocals if it suits the song, guitar cabs, drums
Beta 87's you have - use on vocals if appropriate, percussion, and whatever else sounds good!
Other mics:
1) Whatever suits your voice the best!!! If voice is your main thing, try out everything you can. Get what sounds best to you. The Classic II is supposed to be a great mic, but if the NTK sounds better on your voice, great, you just saved $1000!!! Some great vocals have been recorded with SM58's (eg Bono).
2) Small diaphragm condensors for acoustic/percussion/piano/overheads - a pair of NT5's ($549AU) or Marshall electronics MXL603's (I recently bought from an Ebay store for about $330 NZ shipped with cables, around $300 AU)or oktava MC-012's ($800AU) (but the guys in the US pay $99US each!!! These mics will be useful for acoustic, piano, percussion, drum overheads or other miscellaneous duties. You can combine these with the large-diaphragm you get for your vocals if you like too
3) Bass instrument mic - If you are going to be micing bass amps/kick drums/tenor or below saxes/digeridoo's etc, a decent large-diaphragm dynamic is invaluable - they can also double on vocals. Examples include Sennheiser MD 421 ($800 AU) Peavey 520i (Cheap secondhand for me) Audio Technica Pro25 or ATM 25, Shure SM7

Preamp:
Your Behringer mixer has a bunch of OK preamps, but a great one would be even better. You have a choice between clean preamps and coloured -sounding ones. Clean options include Grace Designs 101 (around $1000AU for a single channel, you'd have to get it in from the US I think, solid state) Studio Projects VTB1 ($500 AU, single channel, tube or solid state) or channel strips like the Joe Meek VC1Q ($990AU), or mindprint envoice ($690AU)

Compressor - FMR audio RNC - I just bought one for $359 from www.musiclab.net.au, but it was apparently the last one in stock. Good transparent stereo compressor for cheap by all accounts - can't wait for it to arrive! You can compress in Pro Tools, but having a compressor in line before the input is a good idea, even if set to just catch the peaks a bit.

Computer - I don't know jack about computers, so I'll keep my mouth shut - I'm sure with good research into compatibility you'll do well. Digidesign (makers of Pro Tools) have a big compatibility database on their site www.digidesign.com

Audio Interface - If you're going with pro tools, you get it with the hardware, and you have a couple of options...
1) M-box - 2-in 2 out, audio only, no midi. Runs over USB. Has built in 2 reasonably neutral sounding focusrite preamps (by all accounts I've heard), and can provide phantom power. $995 AU.
2) Digi 001 - PCI card, 18 ins in total (8 analog, 2 spdif, 8 adat lightpipe). Midi I/O. 2 reasonably neutral, non-focusrite pre's. $2000AU. Also available as Digi 001 Factory with lots of cool effects plugins for around $1000 more. Plugins are expensive, so if you are thinking about mixing your own, this should be well worth it!

If you're not going the protools route, you'll need to budget for the card and the software, as most of the software that comes with other cards is functionally limited (to encourage you to buy the real version!)

Headphones:
A decent closed pair - whatever sounds best and fits your budget - you can spend from $50 to hundreds

Monitors - These tend to be damn expensive in our end of the world, because of A) shipping, B) Lack of competition/demand, and so the prices end up being horribly inflated. I bought Yorkville YSM1p's direct from the NZ distributor for NZ $1300, which is an incredible deal, when you consider that to my ears they were the best monitors in NZ under $3000NZ. Infact, new, you basically can't pick up monitors (even passive ones) for that price! The over $3000 bests to me were the mackie's, but if you're not planning to do critical mixing in your studio, the difference in your budget is not worth it IMHO as monitors are most critical for mixing. Behringer Truths ($839AU) are also popular

If you're going the computer route, it kind of goes without saying these days, but make sure you have a CD-RW drive for cheap backup.

In the end, the above might roughly cost you:
Computer - $2000
Mbox - $1000
Monitors - $1500
Mic's - $2500
Pre's - $1000
Phones - $200
Compressor $400

Total - $8500 (plus a bit for cables, I presume you have stands)
Add another $1000 for digi 001, another $1000 on top of that for 001 factory, but obviously the choice of products within the categories I've suggested will play with the price, eg
COmputer (less than top spec) $1500
M-box $949
Behringer Truths $839
Rode NTK $729
MXl 603 x2 $300
Peavey 520i (second hand) $200 (mine was NZ 150 with stand)
Fmr audio RNC - $400
Studio Projects VTB-1 $500
Phones - $100

Roughly $5500 in total...
All the prices except where noted are based on Australian web store prices.

Shop around, try things out, and see what lights your fuse!

Good luck man,
Steve

 

[SteveMcB]

Man, sorry for such a long post - whew, I didn't realise it was that big!

Steve

 

[ausrock]

Brendan,

Where was your last CD recorded...........in a studio or just a home setup?

Regardless of what others (in Newie) may tell you, there is no-one in N'cle with the ability or proper equipment to do real mastering, particularly if you hope to market your CD commercialy, so definitely take that to Sydney.

BTW, I'll tell M. O'Connor you have surfaced in here when I talk to him next.