Advice on recording a tongue drum

G

gehauser

New member
Anyone recorded one of these? I will be recording a 12-note tongue drum in a treated room that is smallish, but not super-small. I also have a larger, untreated living room with 22 ft ceiling (lots of natural reverb) that I may try it in. The drum is pretty loud when played with mallets, but mellow and soft when played with hands (we will be recording both ways). It's very melodic, and has a wide tonal range. It is tuned to a full D scale (less the 7) on the lower notes, and D pentatonic on the higher notes.

I have these mics:

LDC:
AT4047
NT-1a
CAD M179
SM7b

SDC:
CEMC6 (pr)
SM81 (pr)

I will experiment with mics and mic positions, but if anyone has suggestions for what to try first I would appreciate it.
 
Thank god someone else has this problem!

Hey man! Im sad to see this thread has gone over a year without a response!!!

I have owned one of these beautiful instruments for a while now, (Yours is tuned to D, MIne is Chorded and Tuned to C ;-) So we need to Jam, its Called the Memphis - Baby Chorded 12 note) And i absolutely love the sound of it.

I have tried to record this thing from all sorts of distances, with all kinds of mic's, in all kinds of rooms and environments, and havent been able to get a decent setup.

I cant figure out the problem, and im in the process of bringing a few professional music studio engineers into the loop and getting their input. And will update this thread when i get anything worth posting.

I ALSO, just emailed the company that made my incredible tongue drum http://www.hardwoodmusic.net/drums2.htm ; Asking if they could possibly get on here and contribute any tips they may have for recording this absolutely awesome instrument, But upon reviewing their audio, They are having the same blow-out and leveling problems that i am. (a few of the notes blow the mic to hell while the others sound great)

I mean, this is the number 1 hit for "recording tongue drum" on google and there isnt anything here.

Apparently this instrument in un-recordable ;-) I guess you just have to be there ;-)
....... or buy your own
 
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Seems like an esoteric instrument guys, listening to a few vids on Youtube, it seems you can record it well. I'd look into micing up something more common with a similar sound like a Xylophone.
 
I have been recording a Mexican Folk group where the percussionist uses a tongue drum at times using a LDC about 2 feet directly over the drum. My method on more esoteric instruments is to try to capture what the instrumentalist hears, placing the mics near or directly behind the players head.
 
buzzard bass said:
Seems like an esoteric instrument guys, listening to a few vids on Youtube, it seems you can record it well. I'd look into micing up something more common with a similar sound like a Xylophone.
Click to expand...

Hey man, If you have found youtube videos with great sound, PLEASE link to them!

I have been surfing for a few minutes now and every video ive seen has either been way to quiet, Or has had the same audio problems ive been having

"Your the owner of currently our most popular model and tuning. Our "Memphis - baby chorded 12 note" as we call it is so named because if you divide the drum up into 4 corners, the 3 notes nearest each corner make up four distinct chords. C F G and A min. the "1, 4 5 and relative minor" progression allows you to play literally hundreds of songs such as Marc Cohn's "Walking in Memphis" played F, G, C then Amin in a clockwise fashion. If you play the drum with the dots on the face away and on your right, the the 3 notes that are away right make the A min, the 3 notes near right are the F, the three notes near left are the G and the three notes away left are the C. This also explains why you have 2 "drone" or unison pitches because those two pitches are neccessary in multiple chords. The fact that the pitches may be ever so slightly off of each other is also on purpose as doing so creates a "standing wave" effect that actually amplifies the sound. So, you are correct, this drum has 12 tongues and 10 pitches" a few of the notes just blow the mic out, while the others sound okay.
Here is an example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GLgKR2WXn8&feature=related

You also have to experience this instrument in real life to feel the sound and realize that these recordings simply dont do it justice.

The two center notes on my tongue drum (or the "drone" notes) bounce off of each other and create a "standing wave amplifying effect" and i simply havent been able to capture that at all.

I like the xylophone.... but they are definitely not the same instruments, The tongue drum's sound is very unique sounding and has a real deep feel to it. I dont even know how to describe it other than more soothing and relaxing than even the most beautiful of beaches on the nicest day of the year.

Its seriously almost like meditating when playing it, I would say its more similar to the "hang drum" then the xylophone in sound. I'll research how they record those beasts.

Here is part of an E-mail from Joah from Hardwood Music on the tones of my tongue drum.
"Your the owner of currently our most popular model and tuning. Our "Memphis - baby chorded 12 note" as we call it is so named because if you divide the drum up into 4 corners, the 3 notes nearest each corner make up four distinct chords. C F G and A min. the "1, 4 5 and relative minor" progression allows you to play literally hundreds of songs such as Marc Cohn's "Walking in Memphis" played F, G, C then Amin in a clockwise fashion.

If you play the drum with the dots on the face away and on your right, the the 3 notes that are away right make the A min, the 3 notes near right are the F, the three notes near left are the G and the three notes away left are the C. This also explains why you have 2 "drone" or unison pitches because those two pitches are neccessary in multiple chords.

The fact that the pitches may be ever so slightly off of each other is also on purpose as doing so creates a "standing wave" effect that actually amplifies the sound. So, you are correct, this drum has 12 tongues and 10 pitches"


I will be experimenting with MANY setups in the near future and ill be sure to keep this post updated so us Tongue drummers can share our musical love with the world ;-).

Thanks for all your input! Lets figure this thing out
 
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bassbrad said:
I have been recording a Mexican Folk group where the percussionist uses a tongue drum at times using a LDC about 2 feet directly over the drum. My method on more esoteric instruments is to try to capture what the instrumentalist hears, placing the mics near or directly behind the players head.
Click to expand...

Sounds like its worth a shot in a studio no question.
But how would i retrofit this to play live? with a full band around me? I fee like having it that far away for background noise etc would be a no-no ;-(.

Ill give it a shot!

Thanks!
 
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Tongue drum maker Steve Roberts has a nice site ;)

I've always had luck by micing it up with a pair of over heads (kinda close, but you may find that you'll have to experiment per your room acoustics) and a LDC out in front to capture the room sound.
The same way I would a xylophone, African xylophone or balafon.








:cool:
 
Alright, So i emailed Steve Roberts, And he had this to say. (special thanks to steve roberts)

"Thanks for the great letter and your interest in the fascinating tongue drums.

I'm going to post some stuff to the thread but here's some pics that say several hundred words.
My best recordings have been done either by playing the drum softly with any good mic positioned as shown in the pics, or actually for ambient sound
done with a digital video camera, then just grabbing the sound from that. The softly works probably because you need not worry about the sounds bouncing from the wall, and spending forever working all that out.
I know what your saying about studio recordings, I've been through hell with that, so to eliminate all 5 possible issues with 5 mics, I just keep it to one. Sometimes 2, but simple seems to be better. The initial 'boom' from the keys seems to overwhelm the mics, and then when you pull the mic back, you just lose the subtlety.
Another thing to remember, I think, is that what sounds good through bass speakers at home might sound awful through a computer speaker. And I remember this article about Beatles or some group who would always before mastering an album see how it sounded through a car radio. Anyway, compress the sound as much as you can without killing it.
I'm going to give this some more thought, but thanks for your work with the tongues and keep up the good work.

P.S. If you want to post this, it's fine with me..."

so it seems, the right distance, And playing it softly is the key to making it sing.
Sadly I really have been getting used to loud build's etc and using diffirent levels to make really great sounding jams, and sacrificing those builds would break my heart ;-(. But this is definitely a big step forward, as the clips on steve robert's site sound much better than what i have been able to produce.

I have asked a few people, and most of them have suggested i eliminate the louder notes from my set, using silence in their place, and layer them on top using a different distance after the fact, which seems like a silly amount of hassle for something that my human ears have no problem distinguishing at close distance.

Im thinking maybe a contact microphone, like is used to record the ever elusive "hang drum" may be a good option, but i dont have one lying around so any feedback on if it would be worth it to buy one to try it would be great.

-Thanks to all the contributors!
 
????

Just point a mic at it and call it a day.

Just like any other source, you'll need to experiment with mic placement and playing technique to yield the best results - because your room, mics, instruments, and talent are different from mine.
 
Supercreep said:
????

Just point a mic at it and call it a day.

Just like any other source, you'll need to experiment with mic placement and playing technique to yield the best results - because your room, mics, instruments, and talent are different from mine.
Click to expand...

If only it were that easy! ;-). The problem im having is i want to record what my ears hear, Which includes soft and loud notes, builds, etc. And i cant seem to find a mic setup that allows me to record without babying the instrument and playing very softly/severely adjusting the levels at which i play on certain notes. (the center notes seem to blow out the mic while the levels of the other notes are perfect, making it to chords using the center note sound terrible, only very softly playing the instrument mostly on the higher notes yeilds a good result ;-(

If you have any suggestions please post them!

Here are the Aforementioned pic's From Steve Robert's Setup.
DSC00053.JPG
DSC00056.JPG
DSC00051.JPG
 
ivealwaysgotmai said:
If only it were that easy! ;-). The problem im having is i want to record what my ears hear, Which includes soft and loud notes, builds, etc. And i cant seem to find a mic setup that allows me to record without babying the instrument and playing very softly/severely adjusting the levels at which i play on certain notes. (the center notes seem to blow out the mic while the levels of the other notes are perfect, making it to chords using the center note sound terrible, only very softly playing the instrument mostly on the higher notes yeilds a good result ;-(
Click to expand...

This doesn't present any challenges over and above those one experiences recording dynamic performances on acoustic drums. Move the mic out so that the loudest transients don't "blow out" the mic, and start there. "Babying" the instrument sounds a lot like what you need to do. If you're looking for a homogenous performance, but the center notes are too loud, use softer strikes on the center note. This is a common issue with hh/snare figures. You need to tailor your performance to the mic.

The instrument isn't large enough to need multiple mics, so I imagine a cardioid LDC or SDC should work just fine.
 
Oh, so THAT'S a tongue drum! I've seen those, before. I was trying to wrap my head around a drum that one played with, well, his tongue! :laughings:
 
stevieb said:
Oh, so THAT'S a tongue drum! I've seen those, before. I was trying to wrap my head around a drum that one played with, well, his tongue! :laughings:
Click to expand...

I thust twyed ith don't do thet at home! leth an exthpert do ith. Ouchth :laughings: ..(it's hard to type with a lisp)







:cool:
 
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