advice on buying michrophone

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ecc83 said:
IMHO is "snobbish" (sorry, can't think of a better adjective!) to state (without evidence) that a microphone can only be "reasonable" at $800 and does not enter the realms of "good" until $1200.
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Only if you limit what "good" means.
I think what you're really wanting to say is "good enough"...which is a different discussion.

ecc83 said:
It is also as well to remember that most of the results of these multi k$ mics will be heard on cheap cans or buds via MP3 or on the "worse than FM" DAB! Not an excuse not to use them of course, just an observation.
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Yeah...but it's an observation that then seems to drive decision making...and basically implies that no one should really care....and it comes back again to the it's "good enough" argument.
I'm always appreciative of people who talk about capturing audio nuances and finer shades of audio quality. That's not snobbishness, and will only seems as such to someone who just wants to defend the "good enough" approach.
There's nothing wrong with working on a low budget...at least you're still recording, but there's also nothing wrong with looking beyond that. The laws of physics and acoustics don't change to accommodate budgets...they always apply.

I think people should have a broader understanding of what's out there and what's possible...and then maybe they will also have broader expectations and bigger goals. If it's always dumbed down to some "good enough for home recording" view...you've already gutted any greater expectations, and then those noobs just want the easy answer and cut to the chase...and what's the value in that?
 
miroslav said:
You're way off base.

John is 100% right.
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Hardly....but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.


miroslav said:
Someone was implying that anything more than a $200 mic makes no sense.
The only people who really believe that are people who have never used any mic costing more than $200.

I'm saying that inexpensive gear can have its uses...but this notion, that seems to exist mostly on home rec forums, that anything costing more than a few hundred bucks is some kind of audio scam and has no impact on audio quality...
...is pretty amusing. :D

The problem is that on home rec forums...many people base their *absolute* opinion of audio gear quality and it's use, by what they can afford...and everything outside of their budget is off the table, to the point where the denial turns into dismissal.
It's one thing to say "I can only afford a $200 mic and I'll do the best I can with it until I can get something better"...instead of saying "Anything costing more than $200 is a waste of money and makes no sense".
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Hopefully you're not referring to me, as I said nor implied any of these things.

I said and maintain that this "you have to spend at least $800 to get a good mic" attitude is absurd. Having used "budget" (ie relatively inexpensive but quality) mics and really good ones, and having discussed this more than once with successful professionals, I'm quite confident in saying that it is a point of diminishing returns at best......and a often a hideous waste of money at worst.

I would also love to see people claiming otherwise do some "blind" tests with mics......I think the results would be a hoot. :)


ecc83 said:
any claim that the noob must spend 20 times the average amount for ANY part of the recording chain without evidence is snobbish, unhelpful and just plain wrong.
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Someone gets it, thanks!
 
miroslav said:
Only if you limit what "good" means.
I think what you're really wanting to say is "good enough"...which is a different discussion.



Yeah...but it's an observation that then seems to drive decision making...and basically implies that no one should really care....and it comes back again to the it's "good enough" argument.
I'm always appreciative of people who talk about capturing audio nuances and finer shades of audio quality. That's not snobbishness, and will only seems as such to someone who just wants to defend the "good enough" approach.
There's nothing wrong with working on a low budget...at least you're still recording, but there's also nothing wrong with looking beyond that. The laws of physics and acoustics don't change to accommodate budgets...they always apply.

I think people should have a broader understanding of what's out there and what's possible...and then maybe they will also have broader expectations and bigger goals. If it's always dumbed down to some "good enough for home recording" view...you've already gutted any greater expectations, and then those noobs just want the easy answer and cut to the chase...and what's the value in that?
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The sad fact is that almost nobody on this forum could hear the difference between a $200 and a $1200 microphone because they will simply not have good enough monitoring equipment or rooms!

I quite agree that professional must always do the best job they can and use the best (by their lights) equipment available. That is what the client is paying for but the vast majority here are either keeping shtumn or are saying that most people, most of the time do not need/would not hear the difference from such exotica.

I do feel we are straying dangerously close to the Russ Andrews world.

Dave.
 
joey2000 said:
Hopefully you're not referring to me, as I said nor implied any of these things.
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Actually....I think it was you...though you worded it saying that an $800 dollar mic is for people who have more money than good sense....which is kinda the same thing I was refereeing to.

What's a "really good one" that you've used...just out of curiosity?

I've got maybe 3 dozen mics of various quality/price levels, from the $100 SM57, to mics in the $500 range, and then up to my better stuff that was in the teens...and I can certainly hear the differences between them, and so have other people in my studio.
My top vocal mic always gets the "How much did it cost?" question...and when I tell them, the reply is "I knew it!".
That said...I prefer my $150 Fat Head for guitar cabs. :)

Not everyone knows what to listen for. People may be really good musicians playing their guitar or drums...but they may not be able to hear the same way as a good engineer, until they learn how to. In order to do that, it takes time and exposure to a lot of different audio quality levels and situations. Granted, in some cases we may be talking nuances...maybe 5-10% improvements...but when you add that up across multiple pieces of gear, and multiple processes (tracking, mixing, mastering)...the 5-10% can add up.
Some people care about that and some don't. It's a personal choice, but at least have the choices to choose from rather than not.

ecc83 said:
The sad fact is that almost nobody on this forum could hear the difference between a $200 and a $1200 microphone because they will simply not have good enough monitoring equipment or rooms!
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Agreed....and I did say that the entire signal chain needs to be on an equal level....not just one high-end piece. :thumbs up:
Of course...a mic is THE primary device for capturing audio, and the question has been asked many times, "If I upgrade any part of my studio, what piece of gear should I upgrade first"...and two things are always mentioned...mics and monitors (room acoustics a close third)...and the person then has to evaluate which one is more key for them at that moment in time and budget.

Recording noobs don't need to run out and drop thousands and thousands right out of the gate, but they should be able to understand that there are different levels of gear quality and audio quality, rather then be told they don't need to bother with anything high-end because they're just doing "home recording" and it doesn't matter.
I mean...there should be a visible, understandable path for improvement and expansion of goals and quality...and then people can decide how far they want to take it. If you walk in with preset limitations, then you never consider anything more.


Anyway...I think the discussion is getting played out, and I'm sure many home rec people will always focus on keeping things low budget...and that's their choice....but there are those who appear to be looking for more, and these discussion are at least good to have so that there's not just a one-sided assumption about what's needed and what it takes.
 
miroslav said:
...and I can certainly hear the differences between them, and so have other people in my studio.
My top vocal mic always gets the "How much did it cost?" question...and when I tell them, the reply is "I knew it!".
That said...I prefer my $150 Fat Head for guitar cabs. :)
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off topic, but how do you approach this when ppl come in to record? do you suggest mics or not suggest anything and just set it up? unless, of course, they have a particular mic in mind.

i've wondered this for awhile, and your post reminded me to ask. thnx, if you can
 
I don't do a ton of outside recording...so for me, mic selection is somewhat already a known thing.
I mean...I'll vary my guitar cab mics the most...usually going from a couple of dynamics to some ribbon mics (I don't really use condensers anymore on guitar cabs) depending on the flavor.
For acoustic piano and my Hammond organ...I've also used a variety, again, depending on flavor...dynamics, ribbons and condensers.

For vocals, I have a handful of what I consider my higher-end mics...and there is my #1 tube mic, which IMO, is probably the best choice for vocals, because it has both a delicate articulate sound, yet it also handles punchy vocals, and it doesn't shit itself when you move in on it with a muddy proximity effect.
THAT is how you judge a *good* vocal mic...and you're not going to get that for $200.
You may find a $200 mic that sounds good to you, for your vocals. but a go-to "studio vocal mic" needs to be more adaptable.
That said...there are also very high-end primarily vocal mics that are more specialized....they may sound fantastic for female sopranos...nothing else comes close...but they suck for male tenors...etc.

So I will always put up my "go to" studio vocal mic if I don't have any advance notice....and it doesn't disappoint....but, I've put up 3 of my top mics at once, and let the singer try them, and it kinda is easy to tell which one complements that persons voice the most.
I recorded a female singer awhile back...and my go-to vocal mic wasn't the winner. I ended up using what was still one of my best mics, but it was FET-based mic...where my go-to is a tube mic. Very different sounding. The FET mic just sounded better on her raspy voice.
My top tube vocal mic works best for my baritone voice because of what I said earlier...it doesn't shit itself on the low end....and also, it's a dual-diaphragm, multi-patter tube...so I can click my way through 19 different polar patterns, which is way cool...and that's another reason it's my go-to studio vocal mic...very adaptable and lots of tonal variety...which explains it's higher cost.
 
witzendoz said:
However John, there is another side to this. If the poster can only afford a $200 mic that they may have saved for over a number of months because they do not earn large sums of money, do they buy a reasonable $200 mic and start creating music, or wait for months or years saving until they can afford the $800 for the once in a lifetime mic?
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Of course - I did not say don't buy cheaper - but I did say it's always best to get the best you can afford.

If waiting an extra month or two to save up the extra money is possible, then that's what I would do - if it's a very long wait, then buy cheaper and start making music.


witzendoz said:
My advice buy a resonable mic with what you can afford, look at secondhand. Create your music with what you have while saving for better gear and then buy better gear as you can afford it. You can always sell on the cheaper gear later, which is why I suggested buying secondhand gear in the first place.
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Agreed - but be careful when buying a s/h LDC for vocals as the diaphragm may be contaminated and require expensive work. ALWAYS do the "breath test" when buying a s/h LDC.
 
I think this thread has run its course?
I DO agree with John about the dangers of second hand mics. Indeed I would never buy a s/h "transducer" except for trivial use (I have £20 dynamics in the garden in all weathers!) since nobody really has the equipment to test them and I for one would always be not quite sure.....?

Dave.
 
miroslav said:
Actually....I think it was you...though you worded it saying that an $800 dollar mic is for people who have more money than good sense....
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No, I didn't. I don't know if you're intentionally twisting my words or this is just a hard thing for you, but I agree that this thread is played out. I think I've stated myself plainly enough.
 
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