Nicole_Rose said:
Thanks Glen. Within the confines of 5.1 surround what are we capable of? could a given instrument be placed anywhere within relative position of the center of the 3 dimensional soundstage? can the instrument's location be moved around?
bryank said:
although most examples are in "motion".......how would this affect muisc production? i mean....most of the time....instruments are stationary.
do you guys think it would be benificial to use Holophonic to pan an instrument in a stationary spot, rather than using the traditional panning found on a mixing console?
With either holophony/sonic holography or with surround sound, the mix can be static or in motion, it matters not; though the effects are more noticable when they're moving, of course.
And with both, the coherancy of the placement depands greatly on many other factors such as tracking quality and frequency response, converter/clock quality, playback environment, etc.
Nicole: I can't get inside your head to determine exactly what your needs and expectations are regarding the resolution of the 3D image, but if you're expecting a true sonic holograph where source A is 3 feet away from the listener at an azimuth of 70° (about 2 o'clock) and source B is about 5 feet directly behind the listener, that will only work as well as the quality of your tracking, the amount of channel crosstalk in your analg mixer and devices, and the quality of your digital clockling and converters. Muddy frequency response, noisy channel crosstalk and digital jitter all can and will smear the "image". This happens in regular stereo mixing as well. The addition of another dimension adds yet another degree of criticality to the need for sharpness or focus of image.
Also, remember that when played through loudspeakers, the 3D image will hold up (depending upon the size and shape of the room, the acoustic properties of the room's surfaces, etc.) only in a narrow area in the center of the room. Once the listener moves out from this position, the 3D image collapses. If you're expecting to place an artist in a certain part of the room and to have it sound like she is standing there doing her thing while the listener walks a circle around her or something like that, it doesn't really work that way.
bryank: Using a 3D Pan plug is entirely different from using standard "3D mixing technique" that incorporates a standard pan control for the L/R aspect of the image, and uses conventional compression, EQ, reverb and delay to create a 3D mix.
There are other esoteric differences, but the main one is that standard stereo "3D" mixing basically places the listener in the same room as the performers, and puts the performers in a psychoacoustically 3D soundsatge, but that soundstage pretty much remains in front of the listener, with the front of the stage being even with the loudspeakers (yes there are some tricks to fudge that a bit, but let's skip those for now.) Stereo-based 3D holophony, OTOH, is capable of extending the soundstage out into the room; i.e. putting the listener in the midde of the performance.
As cool as it sounds to put the listener in the middle (and it IS cool
, it's not always appropriate. Anybody who has played in the middle of an orrchestra or has drummed on stage with a rock combo band can tell you just how awful things can actually sound when you're really in the middle of the mix
. Surround or holographic sound needs to be designed and mixed with a specific 3D image in mind. This image does not and often should not necessarily match
the image one wishes to create when building a "conventional" stereo soundstage. The results and the purposes are different for each.
So would a 3D pan be a good *replacement* for standard console pan? I'd say no. They are different tools ofr different purposes, and should not replace each oither any more than a Phillips screwdriver should replace a flat blade screwdriver.
All FWIW ETC...
G.
