Advice needed: compressor settings for mastering acoustic music.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chris F
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Chris F

Chris F

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Before everybody reads the rest of this post and contemplates calling me a newbie idiot, please allow me to be the first to say it: I'M A NEWBIE IDIOT. Whew! Now we can just get that off our minds...

In addition to being a recording NEWBIE IDIOT, I'm also a professional jazz bassist who's trying to learn how to make decent duo/trio recordings at home. My setup is modest: Yamaha MD4s, Digitech 256xl FX processor, Alesis 3630 Dual channel stereo compressor/limiter, and Teac RW-D250 CD burner (a standalone unit). I'm making good progress, and this site is helping a lot, but there's a steep learning curve between the way effects work for live sound (what I'm used to) and for recording - and this is where I need help.

I've never used a compressor for mastering before, and I'm wondering how to best set the controls so that I'm using the unit for mainly peak limiting (acoustic jazz has lots of nasty spikes, and as we all know, the digital kind basically ruin a mix) without coloring the "acoustic" sound of the instruments too much. I'm making several assumptions so far, any or all of which could be wrong (because I'm a Newbie Idiot, remember?):

1) The compressor should be the LAST thing in the signal chain before the CD burner

2) The unit should be set to "Peak" mode instead of RMS

3) For acoustic instruments, the "Soft knee" setting should be better than "Hard knee"

4) I should set the attack and release for short time values

5) I should get the input signal as hot as possible before clipping to get the best sound

6) The threshold should be set very high so as not to color most of the signal with compression.

7) I must admit, I have absolutely no idea what is best to do with the "ratio" control. In theory, I'd want it set to a low ratio I suppose, but when I do this, it clips about 2-4 times each track while the rest sounds fine.


If anyone has some pointers about how to better use this unit, or can correct any of my newbie assumptions, or has any tips at all, I'd be grateful. I always hated compressors as a performer - they made whatever I did sound "fake" - but I know that they are almost always used to some extent when mastering, and I'd like to start learning how to better understand how to do it.

Thanks,
Chris Fitzgerald


P.S. - I've read all of the threads I can reach here on the subject, but for some reason I'm not able to pull up any threads older than about 2 weeks at the moment. If anyone can tell me how to do this, I'd be happy to read the entire archives. Thanks again.
 
Your Alesis in definitly NOT a tool for mastering. You need best quality compressor/limiter for mastering acoustic jazz in analog domain - UREI 1176LN or Teltronix - transparent sound even with gain reduction down to -15 vu
You need to preserve headroom, dynamics and feel of space, without digital clipping when converting to digital.
Try this settings: ratio 4:1, fastest attack, fast release, and threshold at value which indicate compression ( Vu meter or led ) only at loudes passages, and jumps at spikes. Experiment with attack time, increase a bit.
Threshold can be lowered until transparency is preserved.
If you can not hear room anymore it is overdone. This is loudest you can go analog. Or simply use Waves L1 Ultramaximizer plug-in.
 
Chris, another good thing to pay attention to when you're using a compressor is the gain reduction meter - it measures how much compression is being applied to the sound. Small amounts are better, as a rule of thumb - maybe somewhere in the range of -2 to -4 dB. You can adjust the threshold and the ratio in order to get the desired gain reduction.
 
Thanks for the replies. I'm well aware that my Alesis is not a great mastering tool, but it's what I have at the moment and I'd like to learn to use it as well as it can be used. I don't really want to compress that much, but I do want to limit those spiky peaks which drive the rest of the recording down to a low read on the meters - is this still "compression" or is this only "limiting"?

So far the best results have come with the threshold set at almost +10db, with very fast attack and "soft knee" and "peak" enabled. Occasionally the gain reduction gets up to about -6db, but only for a split second, and most of the time it's off.

Dobro - if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that using a higher ratio for peaks is not a bad thing if it allows me to set the threshold higher....did I get that right? It makes sense...In my very limited experience with compressors, I always hated high ratios, but then I was never using it for peaks.

Sorry for the long posts, but this begs another question: If I had a mic pre with some sort of limiting capability, would that help me get a more even signal to begin with? I'm pretty happy with the Piano/Archtop sounds I'm getting, but the peaks are my worst nightmare. Should I be looking to deal with these on the front end of the signal chain as well?

Also, if I were to use something like the ART Tube MP's in the manner that sonusman advocates during mixdown to add warmth to the master, where should they go in the signal chain?

Thanks in advance,
Chris
 
One of the problems with the 3630 is that by simply having it in your signal chain, even when it's not even compressing anything, it adds a fairly noticeable coloration, and not in a good way.

Bruce
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
One of the problems with the 3630 is that by simply having it in your signal chain, even when it's not even compressing anything, it adds a fairly noticeable coloration, and not in a good way.

Bruce
Click to expand...

Hmmm....so you think I'd do more harm than good with it? Interesting...do you have any recommendations for another low end unit that might be better? Also, I have a chance to get a bi-amp stereo EQ fairly cheap. Would (or could) this help with mixdown, or is it another "avoid" type of product?

My first impression of the Alesis was that it took some of the "tubbiness" out of the bass in the mix, which I liked, and made it sound a bit "brighter" as well. But I could have been responding to the volume jump rather than the tone.
 
Someone help me out here - can't remember the name off-hand... starts with R... 3 letters......

Anyone?

:D :D

Bruce
 
Chris F said:
do you have any recommendations for another low end unit that might be better?
Click to expand...
Someone help me out here - can't remember the name off-hand... starts with R... 3 letters......

Anyone?

:D :D

Bruce
 
Bruce is a funny guy...

RNC (Real Nice Compressor)

Excellent piece of equipment for the price.


Matt
 
Just to give the joke away, Bruce is talking about the RNC - Really Nice Compressor. A cheap box that Bruce (and lots of others) swear by.

http://www.fmraudio.com/

I've heard it called the best compressor under $2000 - and since it only costs $200, that is pretty damn impressive. No personal experience with it, but the consensus on the board is such that it is on my buy list
 
Chris F said:
My first impression of the Alesis was that it took some of the "tubbiness" out of the bass in the mix, which I liked, and made it sound a bit "brighter" as well. But I could have been responding to the volume jump rather than the tone.
Click to expand...

This is the most important factor in your decision. If it sounds better (aside from the Fletcher-Munson loudness aspect), do it.


Matt
 
Joemeek is good compressor. I have compared Joemeek unit with UREI 1176LN blackface, which i use on everything. They both perform in same way, because they use opto technology to controll signal atennuation - that means soft, unlinear knee of compression, virtually unnoticeable. Ideal for vocals and HUUUGE guitars.

If your compressor is crap, adjust high ratio, 4:1 - 12:1, fastest attack and release - this is limiting. Now lower the threshold until it start to cut the peaks. Overall loudness is increased for amount of gain reduction dB´s on compressors -VU meter. Signal is less processed if you just cut peaks, instead of compressing whole dynamic range; ( it is more naturally to hear real dynamics of a jazz band than a compressor pumping ) only the loudest peaks - crash cymbal, rim shot, bass slap will be squashed.
Ratio 4:1 means: for every 4 dB of signal increasing over threshold setting value on compressors input, you get 1 dB on output.

:rolleyes: my english
 
Wow. Just read the reviews, and that things sounds (dare I say it?) uh, R_____ N___. I've heard you guys talking about it, but I always thought it was a mythical joke. Given that, I could pretty much trade in my Alesis on the stereo graphic EQ I mentioned earlier and come out even. Does that sound like a smart way to go? I'd love to be able to control some of the under 150hz range of the acoustic bass, as this sounds like mud.

What about the front end of the chain? Am I best off leaving that alone? Sorry if I'm repeating material that's been covered a million times...like I said, I can't access the older threads. thanks again everyone.

Chris
 
You will luv the RNC. It makes a wonderful, transparent master buss compressor. It also works great on individual channels and for tracking if you need it.

Charles
 
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