Advice? Home-built Shuttle XPC based multi-track recorder setup

[crimson117]

Hey everyone!

I'm thinking of building my own portable multitrack recorder, using a Shuttle small form factor pc, a multitrack recording card, and an lcd monitor.

This is a huge purchase for me so I'd appreciate any feedback you might have, particularly with the specialized audio hardware and software. I've built computers before, but never for portable auido purposes.

I've listed prices as well as my current choice (<----) for each category. The total's about $1800.

Please help

Product/Option Price notes

Hardware
M-Audio OmniStudio with Delta 66 PCI $375.00
M-Audio OmniStudio USB $429.00
M-Audio FireWire 410 $399.00 <-----

Software
Cakewalk Home Studio 2004 $95.00 <-----
Cakewalk Home Studio 2004 XL $219.00

OS
Windows XP (educational pricing) $82.00
Windows XP (OEM) $140.00
Windows XP (OEM on eBay) $105.00 <-----

DVD+RW/-RW/CDRW Drive
LG GSA-4040B DVD Burner $134.00
TEAC CDRW used $-
Lite On Beige 52x32x52 CD-RW $38.00
Lite On 48x24x48x16 CDR/DVD Combo Drive $50.00 <-----

System
Shuttle XPC SK43G amd via333 SATA $195.00 <-----
Shuttle PN11 Wireless Add-on module $50.00 <-----

Hard Disk (2?)
Seagate 80GB 7200rpm SATA ST380023AS, OEM $87.00 <-----
Seagate 120 gb SATA (data) $105.00
Seagate 160GB 7200rpm SATA ST3160023AS, OEM $134.00 <-----

Ram
Crucial 2x512 DDR333-PC2700 ram $157.98 <-----

CPU
AMD Athlon XP 2500+ Barton 333 FSB: $85.00 <-----

LCD Monitor
Hewlett-Packard L1530 $360.00
Hewlett-Packard L1702 $430.00 <-----

total $1,787.98

 

[wheelema]

Personally I'd kick up to XP Pro and get an Intel processor.

 

[crimson117]

Personally I'd kick up to XP Pro and get an Intel processor.

Sorry, I should have said it was XP Pro. No way I'm choosing Home

Anything from Intel that can equal the performance of the AMD Athlon 2500+ costs about $75-100 more.

 

[photoresistor]

I am going to go with a Shuttle XPC setup myself. I find it a good solution to being more portable (im gonna have to haul this thing around for recording sessions....) yet not sacrificing on performance.

I would suggest going with the SN45G model, though. It is a little more expensive but also more powerful. The best reason to get the 45G is that with that 2500+ XP you'll get (if you order from the right place) you can over and underclock it. While recording I intend to underclock the processor as to run at low heat so the temperature-sensing fans in the 45G will run very low and make very little noise. When mixing and adding effects etc you can bump it back up to 2500 or even higher (it is very common to safely increase the cpu to 3200+ speeds). With the 45G you'll also be able to buy 3200 RAM (i dont really know much about the 43g but if you havent looked at the 45g...)

For the HDD you might want to look at a Seagate (?) Barracuda. They're specificallyl designed to be low noise.

This is the setup I'll be running. I dont know if noise will even be an issue for you but I thought I'd throw in my two cents. Good luck with your decision.

 

[Bulls Hit]

Just make sure your HD comes with 8MB cache, not 2.

Any reason why your going for AMD/VIA instead of Intel/Intel? Maybe they're better now, don't know, they didn't use to have a great reputation for audio work, 30- 40 tracks, 15-30 plugins, will it handle the load? My AMD/VIA setup maxs out at around 24 tracks, 12-15 plugins & I start getting dropouts.

Also why not ddr400 dual channel ram, with 800MHz FSB instead of ddr333?

You can save maybe $100 on a cheaper MB/chip/ram configuration, but ask youself if the potantial limitations are worth it

 

[christiaan]

Cool. I've been looking at those XPCs for a while now as well, for mobile recording.
First of all: Going for AMD is fine. I'm a happy AMD user.
I'm still not totally sure which one I'll be buying but I'm close to getting the SN45G myself. nForce chipset = good. Just a shame that that particular case doesn't look so great (imho). The SN45G costs - at least here in Europe - practically the same as the SK43G.


Bulls Hit: Saying that your AMD/VIA setup can't handle more than 24 tracks doesn't say anything. I'm sure my Duron 1200/SiS735 won't go much higher than that either. But that's 2-3 year old technology. I want details. Back it up.

I like photoresistor's idea of underclocking while tracking.
And the low noiselevel is exactly the reason why I'm using Seagate myself.

---
Edit: Read back.. Well.... If you really want to use SATA drives, the SN45G isn't a good choice since it doesn't have SATA support... But imho at this point SATA is overrated anyway.

 

[crimson117]

SATA support plus integrated graphics was a big part of my choosing the SK43g over the 41g or SN45g.

By choosing the AMD/VIA rather than Intel/Intel and DDR333 over DDR400, the savings are more than $100 total, closer to $200 or $300. I'm not reallya professional, so I don't expect to have more than 9 or 10 tracks on any given recording, and with the Firewire 410 I'll only be recording 4 tracks at once. Once the tracks are in the PC, I don't mind if it takes a few seconds longer to load them up or mix them down, since that isn't a critical realtime operation like recording.

Regarding overclocking, I think about it somtimes, but even on my current desktop I've never felt the need. I don't think this shuttle recording PC needs to be such a speed demon anyway or I would have gone for an athlon 64. mmmmmmmm, athlon 64.... great now you've got me tempted

Thanks for the computer system feedback; I'll try to design a few more configs with better parts and see whether or not the cost becomes prohibitively high.

What do you all think about the specialized audio hardware, the M-Audio delta 66, omnistudio usb, or firewire 410?

How about Cakewalk home studio 2004?

 

[Polaris20]

SATA support plus integrated graphics was a big part of my choosing the SK43g over the 41g or SN45g.

By choosing the AMD/VIA rather than Intel/Intel and DDR333 over DDR400, the savings are more than $100 total, closer to $200 or $300. I'm not reallya professional, so I don't expect to have more than 9 or 10 tracks on any given recording, and with the Firewire 410 I'll only be recording 4 tracks at once. Once the tracks are in the PC, I don't mind if it takes a few seconds longer to load them up or mix them down, since that isn't a critical realtime operation like recording.

Regarding overclocking, I think about it somtimes, but even on my current desktop I've never felt the need. I don't think this shuttle recording PC needs to be such a speed demon anyway or I would have gone for an athlon 64. mmmmmmmm, athlon 64.... great now you've got me tempted

Thanks for the computer system feedback; I'll try to design a few more configs with better parts and see whether or not the cost becomes prohibitively high.

What do you all think about the specialized audio hardware, the M-Audio delta 66, omnistudio usb, or firewire 410?

How about Cakewalk home studio 2004?

You've got an open PCI slot; go for the Omni. Same price, more analog inputs.

 

[Bulls Hit]

Bulls Hit: Saying that your AMD/VIA setup can't handle more than 24 tracks doesn't say anything. I'm sure my Duron 1200/SiS735 won't go much higher than that either. But that's 2-3 year old technology. I want details. Back it up..

Mine's an Athlon 1800+ which I've had for around 18 months. I think my constraint is the DFI motheboard with the VIA VT8365/VT82C686B chipset.

But yeah, with 16 plugins running I start getting sporadic dropouts in GT Pro when I get to around 24 tracks

 

[christiaan]

You've got an open PCI slot; go for the Omni. Same price, more analog inputs.

Agreeing here. You have a PCI slot. Use it. The Firewire 410 has only 2 analog inputs. The 410 is a great looking package but since you're not confined to using a laptop (that's the whole idea behind the XPC thing, right?), you can do better for the same money.

 

[crimson117]

Agreeing here. You have a PCI slot. Use it. The Firewire 410 has only 2 analog inputs. The 410 is a great looking package but since you're not confined to using a laptop (that's the whole idea behind the XPC thing, right?), you can do better for the same money.

Really? The product description made it sound like it could do 4 inputs at once.

Hmm, after reviewing the specs again, it looks like two analog in, with one s/pdif in and one midi in. Wow, thanks for catching that for me! Would have had to return it if I could only do two instruments/voices at once

So I'll go with the M-Audio OmniStudio with Delta 66 PCI, and maybe use the $25 towards a pentium system. A lot of hardware sites I read consistently say that for audio compression the pentiums do better.

Edit: Yeah, I want to go XPC so I can control what size and type drives, and also so I can upgrade in the future if I need to. The fastest laptop drive you can get is a hitachi 60gb at 7200 rpm, and it's expensive. A laptop is almost too portable for what I'd use it for. I'm already carrying my guitar / amp / fx pedals to recording locations, so the carrying-ease difference between a shuttle+lcd and a laptop is negligible. And like you said, an open PCI port is very useful, too.

I'm still undecided as to whether I'll keep the barton 2500+, or get the SK45g shuttle and overclock the 2500+ to a 3200+ , or pay a little more and go with a faster pentium system. There are more choices for pentium shuttle-type systems than athlon.

By the way, if anyone's thinking of buying the MusicXPC, it's not really worth it, cause for the price they charge it doesn't include a monitor or a professional sound recording card. You can save about $600-$700 by building it yourself, if you're up to the task.

 

[christiaan]

MusicXPC....
I think you're mainly paying a premium for the "Digidesign approved" certification.

And you're right. A laptop is 'too portable'. Recording outdoors is starting to lift off a bit for me and apart from the computer I need to carry around microphones, mic stands, preamps, cables... Even for just a 2 mic setup, a laptop doesn't reduce the cargo a lot. And you can't run it all on the laptop battery or it will be drained by the time the laptop is done starting up.

XPC's rule.

I'll be using an old laptop as monitor myself by the way, using the WinXP Pro's remote desktop feature. A laptop is imho a bit more roadworthy than a separate LCD screen (and I got it for free )

An alternative for the Omni: An audiophile + a Mindprint DI-Port (dual ad/da converter + preamps). It's what I'm using but DI-Ports may be hard to find. For me it was a lot cheaper than the Omni.