Advice for my "CELLAR DWELLING"

[cellardweller]

A=11FT. (*CARPETED* DRYWALL BOTH SIDES, FIBERGLASS INSUL. BETWEEN)
B= 8FT. 4IN. (*SCULPTURED CARPET * DRYWALL BOTH SIDES, FIBERGLASS INSUL. BETWEEN)
C=19FT. (VERY UNEVEN, OLD CINDER BLOCK)
D=10FT. 2IN. (VERY UNEVEN, OLD CINDER BLOCK)

CEILING= 6FT 4.75IN. NEAR WALL B,
RANGING TO 6FT. 2IN. NEAR WALL D.
(MY INTENTION IS TO FILL AREA BETWEEN FLOOR SUPPORTS (in my "ceiling")WITH “FLUFFY” FIBERGLASS ROLLS.)

FLOOR IS 90% CARPETED.

GROUND ZERO IS INTENDED MIXING AREA, BUT THIS IS ONLY TENTATIVE AT THIS POINT.

Oops, nearly forgot. Door is directly in area where "WALL A" text appears.

*Carpet Disclaimer* Yes I know, I've heard. This is probably bad to have carpet on the walls. I did it before I had a clue, and in my defense, I was misinformed...


**EDIT**-Rigid F/G is Knauff 3.0PCF, foil faced. 2in. thick, Four 4X8 sheets, one 2X4 sheet. Will buy lumber as needed, pending your invaluable wisdoms.

Thanx,
CD

 

[cellardweller]

Oops, sorry for lack of context, here is my previous post;

I just ordered four 4X8 rigid f/g sheets, and one 2X4 sheet.
(It's all me wifey would let me spend right now)

Should I cover my corners first and then maybe build a membrane with what's left over?

BTW- The picture is very disproportionate.

Sorry. Just to give some visual idea....

Does the carpet need to come down (I hope not, it's up there pretty good!)

Does the carpet need to come off the floor?

How much better off would I be going with rigid suspended between the floor supports overhead, as opposed to fluffy f/g rolls?

I have a couch in the room, which was there when the walls were put up. I knew at the time that the doorway was too small to get it out, but never thought it would be an issue. I am prepared to saw it in half to get rid of it now though, it's just in the way....

At this point, there is little I wouldn't do to improve my situation with regards to this room!

Thousand Thanx.

 

[casenpoint]

At that ceiling height do you have room to attach the fiberglass you mentioned? 6-7 feet is going to be to close.

Does the room get larger in the middle of the room? What kind of ceiling and roof do you have?

The room is to small to accomodate the furniture that you mentioned. I've read in a book on recordings that if you can place your amplifier directly at the chair or sofa. And recording it will kill some of the reflections. Similar to pointing the amplifier at the closet. But in your case ditch the sofa you'll be glad you did.

What is your budget?

What tools and skills have you acquired?

How close are your nearest neighbors?

Before you get started do your homework.

 

[cellardweller]

At that ceiling height do you have room to attach the fiberglass you mentioned? 6-7 feet is going to be to close.

It's in a basement, I was going to fill the spaces between the above floor supports with the "fluffy" rolls of fiberglass. Bad idea?

Does the room get larger in the middle of the room? What kind of ceiling and roof do you have?

The height fluctuates unevenly throughout, as does the floor (sloping basement floor)

What is your budget?

Depleted after purchasing the rigid fiberglass (for now).

What tools and skills have you acquired?

I have become very frustrated at my inability to make a "portable" mix. I have hit a barrier, just like my low frequencies! I have not wanted to try to "throw money at the problem", so I've not bought much lately. I almost blamed it on my mic, but I think something I read from Ethan started to clue me in. Been "trying" to figure out how to do it right since then...

How close are your nearest neighbors?

Close, but I've not heard any complaints yet. I've saved my "you got on my nerves (insert date here) cards", so I feel I have mine coming.... Mostly not home often anyway...

Before you get started do your homework.

I have been reading as much and as often as work, children, wife, practice, etc. have allowed!!!


BTW-Sorry for the disjointed nature of my posts. I was juggling duties at the time.

 

[knightfly]

I think casenpoint meant what kind of CARPENTERIAL skills/tools you have - also, what speakers do you have?

The rigid fiberglas will do much more for your sound being placed between the joists than using regular fluffy stuff, and that low a ceiling needs a lot of help. If you can, you should pull up the floor carpet - a wood or concrete or vinyl floor will keep things more live if you have absorption in the ceiling.

The wall carpet can stay, but will need to be covered with more rigid fiberglas, at least on the sides. Alternately, you might want to build some free-standing panels and create somewhat of a Reflection Free Zone - this can be done fairly reasonable, but not free.

Regardless, part of your absorbent will be needed straight ahead of you, behind the speakers.

Here is the basic needs, not showing the rigid fiberglas between ceiling joists (at least over the mix area) -

 

[cellardweller]

Knightfly-

Your alterations... are they just freestanding rigid sheets w/fabric? Are some of them are membrane traps, which ones? I had planned to build a couple traps, as you and many others have said that in a room that small, low frequencies are the most prevalent problem.

I have access to tools. I wouldn't know how to identify my level of skill because I have no basis for comparison. I did my fair share of the work putting the walls up down there though.

Speakers are Yorkville YSM1P's, from my computer. I have several other crappy cabinets I keep around for various reasons, but the Yorks' are my most often used monitors.

Would there be much of a difference in the functionality of membrane bass traps mounted on cinder block, as opposed to drywall?

Thanx for the help, God knows I need it!

 

[casenpoint]

The one's in front and to the side should be connected to the wall and the ones possibly behind will be free standing. Knoghtfly knows more about where to positoin them exactly than I. And with the low ceiling height doesn't make his job easier.

Hear is what I came up with.

They are swinging baffles.

They work fine for me.

Or Maybe just build a wall where I have positioned them with a door. And then make the other side the recording room.

Spend more time sound proofing the recording "live" room. Door , window ,and drywall seals.

 

[cellardweller]

Where in the room would you place a combo amp with one 12'' to be miked? I assume the same position would work for a 4X12?

What are your swinging baffles made out of?


Knightfly-

Your alterations... are they just freestanding rigid sheets w/fabric? Are some of them are membrane traps, which ones?
Where would membrane traps be most advantageously placed in the room(as opposed to rigid w/fabric only)?

Thanx,
CD

 

[knightfly]

Sorry, really long days lately - my suggestions were just cloth covered 703 or rockwool, frames as necessary to aesthetics. Panel traps should be built based on modal characteristics of the room for best results IMO. Another reason for panel traps in place of broadband absorption would be if the room is already dead enough but too boomy... Steve

 

[casenpoint]

I used 2x4 framing with mine. Mortised the hinges 3 of them evenly spaced. Srewed down some partical board on it. Then hung it leaving an 1" gap all the way around the perimeter. Stuffed it with 3 1/2 " of rigid fiber. Then covered(using a electric stapler) it with fabric of your choice. I used canvas. But I believe linen allows for more perforation allowing more sound to be absorbed.

Later,

Case'n'point

 

[cellardweller]

My rigid f/g is here and waiting on me to get my s**t together (could be waiting a while).

From all opinions, conflicting and common (see "$1000" thread), I've been able to find, my cinderblock wall will be the largest contributor to low freq. problems.

Has anyone ever successfully mounted bass traps to a brick/concrete wall? Do I first need to frame and drywall over the brick wall for best results (this in itself will be "challenging", as there is a small lip @ the bottom of the brick wall and the whole wall is very uneven)?

So how about it, anyone ever successfully mounted traps to brick or concrete? How big of an improvement was it?

Thanx
CD

 

[cellardweller]

perplexed

To trap or not to trap.

To drywall or not to drywall.

To gouge out my eyes or to not gouge out my eyes.

To run down the street screaming the word "anechoic", alternately with "The Lords' Prayer", in soiled shorts, tears streaming down my face, and gibbering otherwise incoherently...

Ahhh, decisions....

Help me, please....

 

[knightfly]

The more I think about your combination of materials, the more it seems like you will have no "shimmer" left in that room with all the carpet, and 'way too much bass due to the two block walls.

Some questions -

What's under the carpet on the floor, and can it come up?

Ditto Wall A -

Where are your neighbors relative to your room drawing?

Do you intend on having live acoustic drums there, or bass guitar thru an amp, or just mixing?

Are you up for building a pretty serious wall in front of wall D ?

When you say "uneven", regarding the block walls, how uneven do you mean? (Lay a flat board across the wall, and measure from it to the deepest "hole")

Specifically, what power tools/hand tools do you have access to?

Do you want all this to stay "portable" if possible, or does it matter?

Sorry for seeming to abandon you, nice weather/craploads to do, etc... Steve

 

[cellardweller]

The more I think about your combination of materials, the more it seems like you will have no "shimmer" left in that room with all the carpet, and 'way too much bass due to the two block walls.

Some questions -
What's under the carpet on the floor, and can it come up?
Ditto Wall A -
Where are your neighbors relative to your room drawing?

Concrete is under it, yes it can come up very easily, walls A and B are carpeted drywall, not so easily removed. Nearest neighbor is to Wall C approx. 25 ft.

Do you intend on having live acoustic drums there, or bass guitar thru an amp, or just mixing?
Are you up for building a pretty serious wall in front of wall D?

Short term-for mixing only (for now), though one of my guitars if tuned VERY low (C I think it is). Please explain what you mean by a "serious" wall, but probably yes.

When you say "uneven", regarding the block walls, how uneven do you mean? (Lay a flat board across the wall, and measure from it to the deepest "hole")

I estimate 0.5-0.8 in. variance, I will measure later once I am home

Specifically, what power tools/hand tools do you have access to?

drills, circular saw, mitre saw, friends with some tools. Father-in-law with boatloads of powertools. What do I need?


Do you want all this to stay "portable" if possible, or does it matter?

"portable" seems to be a "point of diminishing returns"... so no. If this is attainable without compromise, then yes!

Sorry for seeming to abandon you, nice weather/craploads to do, etc... Steve

!!!100% understood!!!

I can completely relate, acoustic issues aside, I scarcely have time for ass-scratching anymore.

Thanx for the help, I can't tell you how valued it is!!!

 

[cellardweller]

I started removing the carpet from the floor last night, now I remember why I put it down in the first place!

Should I leave it bare concrete, or find a remnant of linoleum or something?

Should I take up ALL the carpet from the floor, or just that in the mixing/monitoring area?

 

[knightfly]

Depends primarily on the condition of the concrete - is it rough, lumpy, what?

If it's smoothable, you may be able to do a stained finish right on the concrete - Jake Owa is the man to ask about the how's and why's on that, I'm planning to pick his brain myself down the road a ways.

If it's NOT very smooth, you might need to use a self-leveling paint/epoxy, and if it's REALLY rough, possibly stringers and a new floor.

Sooo, how bad is it? Steve

 

[cellardweller]

It's not what I would consider "lumpy", nor is it pitted... I did observe one sizeable crack. The floor slopes to where once water could access a drain, before the addition of walls. It is in need of aesthetic improvement was all that I meant. It is a putrid shade of brown, and in need of a good scrubbing.

Leave it bare then, eh?

 

[knightfly]

Cracks can be cleaned out with a brush and vacuum cleaner, and patched with the concrete version of FixAll, available at most building supply places including Home Depot, Lowes, etc - As long as you keep the floor material "live", as in non-absorbent, whatever you choose is more about aesthetics than acoustics. Anything from pergo to linoleum, vinyl, painted or stained concrete, etc, it's more what you like and can afford (usually not in that order) - keep in mind that you'll probably be scooting your chair around quite a bit, so it's best to choose something that's pretty durable from a wear standpoint... Steve

 

[cellardweller]

It's gonna take me a month just to get the floor cleaned up.

There was a space of 6 months or so when i was not occupying my house. My ex-wife, ex-best-friend, and ex-brother-in-law's proceeded to remodel my house with filth, filled my garage with garbage in addition to rendering it structually unstable (don't know how), and decorating my driveway/yard with engine blocks and transmissions (but at least I'm not related to them anymore).

I gutted the house, tore down the garage, hauled off the misc. car parts, then only surface cleaned the basement floor before putting up walls down there, so it is overdue for a major scrubbing.

Long story short, I'll probably resurrect this thread after a brief hiatus, when I am ready to plod aimlessly into the great unknown of acoustic improvement.

Thanx.