Adding to Collection - More Gear

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aaronmcoleman

aaronmcoleman

The truth is out there!
I am looking to get a little bit more gear and have about $700 to do it.

Stuff I have:

Mics: NTK - Vocals mainly and warm stuff
NT 5 (pair) - Acoustic Guitar, Overheads
SM57s - Everything (snare, toms, guitar cabs, whatever else)
Oktava MK 319 - not much anymore
Shure bass drum mic - can't remember model but I use it for kick and bass guitar

Pres: RNP - Vocals, Acoustic Guitar, everything
Presonus TubePre - Not a lot anymore
Focusrite Saffire pro 40 - drums, guitar cabs, almost anything

Gear: RNC

DAW: Reaper - no extra plugins

Monitors: M-Audio Studiophile SP-5B

So pretty basic set up but it get the job done pretty well. Everything I have is fairly transparent, and I'm happy with it, I just want something with more color (i know I'll get blasted for nebulous terms, but you know what I mean mostly).

I'm looking for some gear with character to add to this. Eventually I'd like to get a rack going with some reverbs/delays (PCM 42), other compressors (RNLA), and EQ - that's all for a later post!

For now I am looking at (1) a pair of FAT HEAD ribbon mics ($300), and (2) a Golden Age Project Pre-73 ($300), and (3) possibly DMP-3 (may not provide anything over the Focusrite and RNP). I want something that will give some character to acoustic guitar, and maybe vocals. The ribbons would probably be nice for guitar cabs and overheads too.

What do you think, any other suggestions? I would guess mics would provide the most difference.

As always, thanks!
 
For now I am looking at (1) a pair of FAT HEAD ribbon mics ($300), and (2) a Golden Age Project Pre-73 ($300)

Liking this right here!
You'll need to spend what you have left for cabling and celebration :drunk: once those items arrive.
 
Cool, thanks!

Yeah, I always forget about cables, but I should have tons, and $700 is flexible!

How have you liked the pre-73 on vocals and guitar? basically what have you liked it best on?
 
Two things that would be good- First AKG C2000B. Check ebay and buy used. The little bugger will give you what you want on acoustic, totally different from the NT5's. It is also an excellent vocal, cab, and miscellaneous percussion mic.
mic. Or- Shure SM7b- You don't have a really good dynamic. Lastly, and perhaps most important: You need a subwoofer. I own and use the SP5b's. There's a reason why the bass ports are in the back. They were designed to work with a powered sub. Without it, the bass output is way too weak, causing you to mix with too much bass. This is the latest M-Audio unit:

M-Audio SBX-10 | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Free Shipping on most orders!

There are plenty of other options, though, particularly the discontinued M-Audio subs that were made to work with the SP5b's, such as SP8S and SB8X (which I use). Other options for less money:

iKEY-audio M-10S V2 | 8thstreet.com | Call 1-800-878-8882 | Free Shipping on most orders!

Yamaha HS10W | Sweetwater.com

Trust me on this one- adding a sub to those monitors will improve your world.-Richie
 
cool, thanks.

i'll look into getting subs. i've had the monitors for years, so i've kinda gotten used to them and been able to adjust the bass to make it work. but yeah, a sub would probably do a world of good.
 
Ok, so i just ordered what I mentioned in the first post (GAP pre-73, and pair of Fat Heads)! I am pretty excited for them to come since it's been a long time (6 years) since I got any new gear (other than my saffire pro 40).

Next up on the list is likely an SM7, and sub. Thanks for the advice. Once these two shopping sprees are done I should be set for a good while.

How would you characterize the C2000B? I haven't seen or read much about it, but I'm intrigued since you think it would work on acoustic, and it is different from the NT5 and NTK.
 
C2000B is an unusual mic. AKG really wants to discontinue it, but there's just enough buyers to keep them from doing it-so far. Made in Austria, not China, it is technically a small diaphragm condenser, but the diaphragm is placed in a larger retainer ring which makes it act like a mid-size diaphragm mic. Generally, large diaphragms are about 1", and small diaphragms are about 1/2". There aren't many mid-size diaphragms out there- AT4033 for one. I think Shure SM32 is also.

The mic is in a housing that is larger, like a large diaphragm mic, not like a pencil mic. Designed for a broad array of orchestral recording applications, it is wicked versatile. Unlike most small diaphragms, it works fine on vocals, at least with a fair number of vocalists. It is good on acoustic guitar, and is excellent as an overhead mic for drums or piano, can be used live, and is pretty feedback resistant. It really excels on toms, Djembe, Conga, and oddly enough, it really, really, rocks on guitar cabs. I also use 2 of them remotely for stereo recording choirs, etc. It used to be a $200 mic, now about $289 street. But you can often find them used for $100 or less. Try to find a deal where you get the H85 or H100 shock mount. They are expensive when purchased separately, and they are very versatile shocks.

What does it sound like? It is a ruler flat mic that is fairly colored. What do I mean by that? It doesn't augment or attenuate any specific frequency band, except a 4db rise at about 7,000Hz. Big Deal. By color, I mean that it introduces hopefully subtle distortion that airbrushes annoying detail. This is what tube mics are created for. Of course, the C2000B has no tubes. It's a FET mic. To non-noobs here, the best way I can describe it is...It's like an Oktava MK012/MC012 (one of the good ones), that you can sing into. I wouldn't be surprised if they took a good look at the Oktavas and the 1" LOMO head before they designed the mic.

The problem was marketing, I think. They produced it as part of a line that included several flops. Everybody figured, "If a C3000B for $300 kind of sucks, and a C1000S for $280 *really* sucks, then a C2000B for $200 has to suck *more*. They were wrong, and threw out the baby with the bathwater. I use it on several female vocalists, as well as cabs and cheap acoustic guitars,There's that color thing at work. You don't want to record an Applause with a bad neck with a Neumann, etc. It just makes it worse. The point about this "color" is- is it *really* subtle, or obvious? It's like makeup. There's Heidi Klum, Tammy Fae Baker, KISS, Alice Cooper... There's lots of ways to use it. When we hate it, we call it "muddy". When we like it, we call it "warm" and "flattering". In my experience, the C2000B is more often warm than it is muddy. Look for one used. Why pay full price?-Richie
 
Just got the Fat Heads in today, and the pre should be here tomorrow. Hopefully I'll have a chance this week to play around with it. I'm really interested in hearing the fat head through my RNP and comparing it to the Pre-73, especially on acoustic.
 
aaronmcoleman said:
Just got the Fat Heads in today, and the pre should be here tomorrow. Hopefully I'll have a chance this week to play around with it. I'm really interested in hearing the fat head through my RNP and comparing it to the Pre-73, especially on acoustic.
Click to expand...

Tomorrow is a holiday maybe Tuesday! :D

Do keeps us informed of your findings.
 
It's not a holiday for me. Stupid school gets a day off for ceasar Chavez day but not presidents day?! I guess that's what I get for living in California.

Anyway, ups tracking says they'll deliver tomorrow so hopefully. I'm pretty pumped!
 
Ok, fat heads came in a couple days ago. So far all I've done is record an acoustic guitar and play with it in mono for about 45 minutes, and sing a a couple of quick lines into it as a test. First impressions - guitar sounds full and detailed and very warm, voice sounds alright, but I'll need more time to decide. Also, mic placement is way different than with my NT5/SDC. I had the Fat Head much higher and further back to avoid boominess. It needs tons of gain! A good pre is essential. So, I like it a lot. Can't wait to try some stereo stuff.

Pre-73 just came in today so I haven't had a chance to mess with it. It is much bigger than I expected, but looks cool.

In a couple of days I'm going to post some clips (hopefully) of the fat heads through RNP, Pre-73, and my Saffire pres and see what everyone thinks. Hopefully we'll get some good responses and good info from the test since this is the kind of equipment a lot of people here have.
 
I finally got a chance to mess with the pre-73 and fat head today, and I am super impressed! So much so that I already want a second pre-73 to do stereo stuff and maybe kick drum and snare.

It has tons of gain, and sounds really nice clean. but lowering the output and increasing the mic/line made it sound awesome, just what I was looking for. I can't wait to get another so I can track some stereo guitars! Tomorrow I'll really get a chance to dig into this thing (no school or work on thursday!).
 
Ok, I'm posting this all here until I can get the clips up and ready. I ran some acoustic tracks through the fat head into RNP, Saffire Pro40, and GAP pre-73. As expected RNP was super clean, bright, chimey, and very smooth. GAP was warm, not as clean as the RNP, but not too noisy, clear but not as much as the RNP...not in a bad way, the character of the pre is to be bit muddier. Surprisingly the Saffire pres held their own. They were kinda in between the two, not super clean, a little bit noisier, and I'd say the highs were a bit harsher.

Results: all in all, all three sounded good and I'd use them all for different things. I really like the GAP pre-73, but it has its uses and things I would probably not use it with, but the RNP never fails to surprise me time and time again and I can't think of a source I wouldn't use it on. The saffire pres are fine, but I'll only use them as backups when I need more (like recording drums). Then again if I get another pre-73 I'll run overheads through RNP and bass and snare through Pre-73s. Anyway, enough rambling, I'll post clips ASAP in another thread and see what you all think.
 
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