Acoutsic & Vocals

badgas

badgas

New member
I'm getting ready to record my J-30 and vocals at the same time.
I've heard other guys do it and it sounds good. But then I read other places that the bleeding, I think that's the term, from vocals onto the guitar track makes for a 'not so real sound'. What ever that is.

Here's my set up.

J-30 through a 177 cad.
Vocals through a 57 with a slight touch of verb.

Should I put something like a hunk of cardboard between the mics to stop the vocals from getting on the guitar track, or does it really matter that much? Any ideas would be helpful.
TIA.
 
well first off, i would consider bleeding to be a real sound and isolated instruments to be a "not so real sound".

you are going to have to experiment to find your mic positions... i would start with the guitar. get the mic in a position that sounds best to you.... then throw that 57 pretty close to your mouth (get a screen in there...). maybe aim it up a little bit if the bleed bugs you.

should work out fine. many players sing a bit better while playing an instrument... if you are one of those people i would concern yourself little with bleed issues. just get the performance down.
 
Thanks eeldip.
I'll do it this way. It's what I've been pondering over for the past couple days.
No, I'm really not gonna loose any cookies over any bleeding. I just wanted some other advice than what I've been getting around my local contacts here where I live.
I appreciate your help.
 
The way you are doing it is probably the best plan. I was recording some rough song demos last week and I just stuck a C1 a few feet away and at mouth level to record vocals and guitar. It actually sounds pretty decent when heavily compressed.
 
Just do it a track at a time.


Too much of a pain in the ass to do it live, and it never sounds any damn good. Damn near impossible to get a center-focus /panning on the vocals, and if the tracks are even a fraction of a millisecond out of phase, the vocals will sound weak and thin.

If you can't figure out how to play without singing or sing without playing, then you're not a real musician. :D :D (exaggeration)
 
Thanks Tex. I'm gonna give it a try when I get home.

Chess.
I've thought about doing it one track at a time, but I've heard some very well recorded songs that people have done in one take. It's just that I want to do one song like that. For experience for one thing. Besides, I'm doing all my other songs one track at a time.
Sure, I can play music without singing. I played guitar for forty years without singing. I never sang till I began recording.
I have a compressor and mics, and mixer, etc...
I wanna do it.
Please tell me I can... ;) :D :D
 
dont sweat it.

the vocals are probably not going to sound thin... although chessrock is right in that phase problems can be an issue.

if you are recording on a computer this isnt going to be a problem though, you can just manually line them up till they sound great. and since you are only talking about 2 tracks this isnt going to be much of a pain in the ass (like it is with a whole drum kit!).

another way to avoid all these troubles is to record in a great sounding room (less of a problem finding one if you are just a guitar and voice...) and set one mic up close between the guitar and the voice (maybe an omni), and another set back a few feet.

this will give a totally different kind of vibe.. its going to sound very live and roomy. but if the room sounds good, it could be cool.
 
eeldip said:
many players sing a bit better while playing an instrument... if you are one of those people i would concern yourself little with bleed issues. just get the performance down.
Click to expand...

Thats why so many of greatest blues players from the 1930's and 40's are still listenable today......for the most part.......
 
eeldip,
Ahh, I see. I was going to try recording both together then I reread Chess' post after I posted.
Yes, I understand the phasing problem now. I didn't think of that earlier. I use to record on computer but I don't own a computer anymore. I'm at my folks right now using theirs.
I'm still going to try it and horse around with various ideas.
Thanks.



Chess, Thanks for that advice. I appriceate it also.
I can't send it paypal. I don't have a credit card. Really. No need for one.
I did clean my room though.
 
Outlaws said:
Thats why so many of greatest blues players from the 1930's and 40's are still listenable today......for the most part.......
Click to expand...
I have all of Robert Johnsons music, some on 78s. Taking the recording equipment of the day into concideration, I think it sounds pretty good.
I've heard other homerecorders say they did it and it sounded good so I'm still going to give it a whirl.

Thanks.
 
Just an idea!!

...if you have access to a PA I think you should try just setting up on stage and sound check the hell out of it, mic the left and right and do it in one take. Micing a PA can give you that truly live feel. I have heard about doing drums this way (i think it it silly). They put the drums in a big room, mic the kit, send it through a PA and crank the drums. I would like to hear this done.. you might get a truly unique sound!?!?
 
Just do it

I have recorded many artists playing and singing at the same time. It works quite well. Just make sure you are getting the sound you want with the guitar and the vocals separately before you start.

If you have a good pickup on the guitar, you can always go that way too. While I am certainly not giving up my day job, I recorded this piece all at once at home in my living room(guitar was plugged in, obviously)

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=3356&alid=-1
 
Have you actually tried it yet? You do get some bleed yea but does it sound bad?? Unless the tracks are pretty dry, and its quiet, and your really going for some seperation, it will probably sound just fine.

I do it all the time.
Just pay close attention the where your mics are aimed if you feel it is too much.

I always prefer to do it that way on an acoustic drivin song, it helps me get into the singing.

SpaceBoy
 
Keep in mind all of the above "may" end up sounding okay for you
(doesn't usually for me...most of my clients don't seem to mind though), but as soon as you decide to "fix" something (overdubs, retrack one part, etc.) later, you're into a whole other "can of worms"...sure there are workarounds, but they take time, never seem to quite "get it" and cost you more (or the studio if paying flat rate per song...that's me).

I've done it both ways, always had much better results with individual takes, but have heard exceptional tracks done together...just not by bottom feeders (myself included) however.
With all respect, not saying someone out there couldn't /hasn't done it with a minimal setup, and it always depends on how much or little of anything bugs you!

As for me personally, when I'm tracking myself, not engineering, I absolutely never do vox/ac guitar at the same time, purely for sonic reasons, equipment limitations don't exist (we'll maybe they do for high end gear :(

Best of luck,

BW
 
For a long time, I tried playing and singing at the same time through two mics in a variety of positions. The only way you can do it without phase problems and bleed is to get both mics far away enough from you and the guitar. That's okay if the room sounds good and if you're happy with that 'distant from the mic sound'.

But if you want to mic yourself close up for a more intimate sound, then you've got a choice: either use one mic only, or overdub one track at a time.
 
A heavily EQed little electret mic mounted inside the guitar can give you a more than decent direct guitar sound.
A feed from the built in mic, as well as a dynamic mic for vocals can get you a cool "lo-fi" sound if that's what you're after.
 
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