Acoustic Mixes, anyone? Feedback from great musical minds?

[Shaky Tee]

Hey all!

I've put up some initial mixes of some acoustic tunes I'm working on. These will eventually go on an EP that I (hope) to distribute locally via gigs in coffeehouses and such.

The only one on there I'm REALLY not happy with is Niland. The vocal file has a lot of noise on it, and I had to use a LOT of effects and equing to get rid of it (or try to) and by the time I had figured out how to deal with it, I had already moved on to another song.

I also used the rythym section from the original song on it. I liked it when I first heard it, but now I"m not sure if it works?

As for the rest...well, frankly, ALL of them sound a little sterile. Really cold. They're missing some warmth. Maybe I over compressed the guitar and vocal parts? Delay issues? Too much reverb?

Some feedback and some suggestions would be nice.

Oh!! The songs! The top three ones right here:

http://www.artistlaunch.com/helens

Oh, and I recorded the guitar as a Direct In into my Tascam US-224 (OR my Aardvark USB3) external sound card and output into my VXPocket2 (I REFUSE to record any audio on USB soundcards, but they make great preamps!). Vocals were done with a Studio Projects B1 Mic, run through an ART MP Studio Preamp and into the US-224. All live items were recorded and mixed in N-Track, along with LOTS of plugins.

Enjoy! ANd thanks!

 

[AlChuck]

and I recorded the guitar as a Direct In into my Tascam US-224 (OR my Aardvark USB3) external sound card and output into my VXPocket2 (I REFUSE to record any audio on USB soundcards, but they make great preamps!).

I'm curious.... why not use the Tascam direct into the computer? What you are doing is digitizing your audio into the US-244, then converting back to audio, then digitizing the audio again when it goes into the VXPocket... certainly this process cannot make it sound any better, so is it that the USB hiccups too much on your laptop?

One other comment on that last comment, that USB soundcards "make great preamps!" This is only true for ones that have good preamps in them. There are many USB soundcards with no preamps, or so-so preamps, so a blanket statement like this about USB soundcads might be misleading.

Will try to listen to the actual tunes later today...

 

[Shaky Tee]

Heya Chuck,

I can't use the USB-224 AND the USB3 as actual soundcards PRECISELY because of the hiccup issue. Also, I exclusively use N-Track for recording, and it's issues with ASIO drivers are sticky, to say the least (the ASIO drivers, when they work, actually kill the pops and clicks issue, but then I run into dropouts on both recording AND feedback after about 3 to 4 tracks).

Sorry about my blanket statement. BOTH the USB3 and the US-224 have preamps in them, for both mic and guitar, and their both pretty reasonable (The USB3 ones are a little better, but they're also alot noisier).

I'm still trying to figure out this system. Bear with me.

 

[tjohnston]

wow real music. Nice! Is this someone you recorded or is that a pic of you. If thats you then you must be real tired since you are leaning against the wall.

 

[mixmkr]

I am not sure how to put this... Your voice has a quality to it that I just can't warm up to. It is kinda like how some people just don't like opera because of the sound of it... or like not liking someones voice like Fran Dresher (you know..the one on TV)

It also seems that you have intonation problems with your voice too, and that adds to the negatives for me. Additionally, the guitar has some of the same problems,....kinda a nasty plugged in sound and is out of tune in places. So this really adds up in the "needs improvement/changing" camp for me.

Also, the fact that these are "raw and ruff" demos really shows. In this day and age, the "real ruffie" kinda has a tough road to hoe, I would think, and I have to admit, it affects how I percieve a presentation from an artist. (even if the song is a winner or not....that's just MY fault)

I know this is not a very complimentory, glowing review of your songs, but I thought an honest opinion would be allowed.

I think that your voice, (and I do find it very easy to recognize, for better or worse..but I think better, as it CAN and SHOULD work to your advantage) would work best with avant guard (sp?), electronic style music...which a couple of your songs seem to lean towards. Stuff with kinda a theatrical kinda flair to the music.... an electronica, new age-ish, technoid, pulsing kinda stuff with unique ear candy. With your unique sounding voice, that would seem a viable route to me.

thanks for the post.

btw...that's one of the best pics I've seen of you too.

 

[Shaky Tee]

Tjohnson, thanks!

Mixmkr,

I appreciate your input and value your opinion.

1. Vocally My main issue is that I have a theatrical/classical background in terms of my more recent training. I also tend to get REALLY nervous when I get in front of a recording mic, because then I get hung up over pitch issues, how I sound, etc, when I record. I've also been struggling with "tight throat" syndrome as of late, which means everything that comes out of my mouth sounds really pinched. I can't afford a vocal coach right now, so I'm dealing with it the best that I can. I gotta resing one of those songs anyway if, for nothing else, the wave file REALLY sucks!

I also think compressing the hell out of my vocals may have had something to do with the "quality" of them that you talked about. I'll look into it...

2. I totally tuned my guitar before recording (I just got a chromatic tuner), but there's one string, the B string, that tends to go off when I hit the D Major chord. I need to figure out what to do about that.

3.

Also, the fact that these are "raw and ruff" demos really shows.

Well, why do you think I'm here then?

4.

I think that your voice, (and I do find it very easy to recognize, for better or worse..but I think better, as it CAN and SHOULD work to your advantage) would work best with avant guard (sp?), electronic style music...which a couple of your songs seem to lean towards. Stuff with kinda a theatrical kinda flair to the music.... an electronica, new age-ish, technoid, pulsing kinda stuff with unique ear candy. With your unique sounding voice, that would seem a viable route to me.

I actually do agree with you, and, in terms of my full production work, I am heading in that direction. However, I need to get out and gig, and in the town that I am in, and the kind of market that I'm going for, Electronica onstage is NOT an option.

Last thing I want to be considered is a "track artist". Which, unfortunately, the electronica stuff in a coffee house would leave me no choice BUT to be one.

Unless I start a band. And again, with my current financial situation, I"m in no position to do so.

So...any further ideas on how to clean this up? Thanks!

 

[mixmkr]

So...any further ideas on how to clean this up? Thanks!

all I can say about the guitar would be to make sure it has decent strings on it and most importantly, it is set up correctly. If this is a "good" guitar it usually is well worth the money to have it done professionally, if you are not able to do it yourself. With fixed bridges on acoustic guitars, you become more limited in adjusting your intonation, that is for sure, but having the neck and action set correctly can affect your "out of tune" problems too. Or...a nice guitar like a Taylor can do the trick also!

as far as offering vocal tips...I'm the wrong person. However, as far as "mic fright"... You HAVE to get over that. Especially if you are recording yourself at home.. What is there to be "scared" about...? that you will forget how to erase the bad?? I think the more you do of it, the more your voice will be able to relax and the more comfortable you will be recording. I mean, try to get your recording setup so it is EASY to "punch record" and go. Get in the habit of recording everything. Storage media is cheap, and it is just as easy to erase what you don't want. MUCH harder to replicate a good take that you just "didn't get around to" recording.


and as far as the "raw and ruff" demos. Glad that you ARE here, and this is the place for learning and showing. However, in the scope of things, my point was trying to say that at least demos should be "in tune" , etc...or erased and retracked until they are. Why present yourself in a bad light? If you KNOW it is out of tune, and you KNOW how to re-do a track, then there is no excuse. If time is an issue, I can understand that. Additionally, if you can't hear certain problems, that is MORE than understood. My gripe (with people posting in general...and NOT just you) is that they know there are EASY TO FIX mistakes, but they are too lazy and bypass them and expect the listener to not pay attention to those faults. "just check out this song...I know there are a lot of mistakes, the guitar is out of tune, etc..." That's balony. As an aspiring musician, I think it is by far best to let people hear your best right off the bat (demos included), as that is usually a one shot deal when people hear a demo. First impressions and all that jazz. I'm not scolding you for your "problems" and... PLEASE do not interprut that as what I am doing. You DID NOT make excuses UNLIKE many other posts that I see from others. So I commend you for that.

also...as far as the compression...and all that jazz. DON'T use it if you think it is making things sound bad. Good use of compression USUALLY is invisable and you don't even know it was "compressed". Lay off the compression completely. As a good vocalist, you shouldn't really worry about "electronic fix-its" and be more concerned about mic technique instead. Think of all the effects and compression as icing... NOT to improve a sound, but to dress it up differently. (but...I should talk, as I bathe my tracks in effect myself!! lol!!)

sorry for the rant. Hope I made some sense.

oh..btw...what is a "track artist"? that's a new term for me.

 

[Shaky Tee]

THanks for all that!

The last time I had my guitar strings changed, I had someone else do it. This time, to save money, I did it myself. Not sure if it was a good idea, tho'. I also thing the fret area may need some adjustment, which is probably what the pro guitar stringer did.

"Track Artist" - a signed artist (or any performer in general) who sings with a backing track on a regular basis, rather than hiring musicians to do so.

Most Rap singers and disco divas are track artists, for example...

 

[Shaky Tee]

Just uploaded another one! The latest one is at the very top of my page...full of reverb and delay and whatnot.

 

[caryindy]

Just uploaded another one! The latest one is at the very top of my page...full of reverb and delay and whatnot.

Helen,

Which song are you speaking of? I just listened to a few songs and also loaded "It got you too" into my DAW to see what was going on.

Have you ever tried to record your acoustic guitar with your B1?

 

[Shaky Tee]

It was "It Got You Too"

Hey Cary,

I haven't tried recording my guitar with my B1 yet. My previous attempts to record my acoustic have left a LOT to be desired.

It was a Shure SM57 mic that I used, tho'...

 

[caryindy]

Re: It was "It Got You Too"

Hey Cary,

I haven't tried recording my guitar with my B1 yet. My previous attempts to record my acoustic have left a LOT to be desired.

It was a Shure SM57 mic that I used, tho'...

When you used the 57, where did you place the mic? The sound of a miked acoustic would sound better than the piezo pickup. I've read many good things about the B1 and acoustic guitar also. Maybe you could try again soon?

 

[AlChuck]

Vocally My main issue is that I have a theatrical/classical background in terms of my more recent training. I also tend to get REALLY nervous when I get in front of a recording mic, because then I get hung up over pitch issues, how I sound, etc, when I record. I've also been struggling with "tight throat" syndrome as of late, which means everything that comes out of my mouth sounds really pinched. I can't afford a vocal coach right now, so I'm dealing with it the best that I can.

I can relate to this. I am very conscious of recording when I record, and it probably negatively affects the outcome 75% of the time. And it's almost always when I feel like I really need to get a track done. Then there's the 25% of the time that it comes out better than I have any right to expect. Usually those are moments when I just want to knock off a quick pass or I'm not too serious about the need for anything I'm doing to count for anything.

Especially with stuff that's as naked as you and an acoustic guitar (no jokes, monty), maybe you would have better luck with recording these in front of an audience. Bring the laptop to the coffee house and see if you can get a stereo line out off the mixer.

I think the reverb and compression are mostly fine -- well, maybe a little too much on the guitar. I think the guitar sounds pretty bad overall. Direct recording an acoustic is the kiss of death. You really need to mic it.

The vocal performances are, as you and others noted, sub-par. The guitar playing sounds weak and tentative too. I don't know how to help with that except to say, keep at it... record and listen, work on what you percieve as flaws, do it again... Play along with a metronome too...

I'm now comparing the "power vocals" version of "It Got You Too" and it's much better in this setting. I guess you already know that.

There's another point I have to make. The lyrics... I think you sometimes try too hard to be poetic or clever, or at least that's the impression I'm left with, and it detracts from the potential power of your songs. Again, it's hard for me to offer any real help, and I don't mean that you should be shooting for empty-headed pop fluff.

Whoa, that stop near the end of "It Got Me Too" with the scatty stuff is just not very good, it sounds like you are out of water there.

Now that I've bummed you out, pick up that guitar and keep working at it! It's damn hard, don't I know it! I don't even try to sing, it would just be too hard on top of all the growing I have to do on my axe...

 

[Robertt8]

hmmmm...yeah, I see what mixmkr is talking about the voice. it's very distinct. It almost sounds too forced or something, kind of like your singing it without opening your throat and all the sound is being pushed though a small space...kind of nasal, or (forgive me for this) parrot like. But like i said it's different, and that might be enough alone to get you noticed.

You might want to put the voice back a bit or add a bit of reverb to soften it up a bit.

Just an idea.

 

[mixmkr]

There's another point I have to make. The lyrics... I think you sometimes try too hard to be poetic or clever, or at least that's the impression I'm left with, and it detracts from the potential power of your songs.

I kinda agree with that... but what the end effect of it is, is that it sounds like you are trying to "stuff" 10 words in a 3 word space sometimes. Some real tongue twisters coming out of you, for sure.

I think the "operative word" is to 'keep at it'. If it all were so easy, none of us would be banging our keyboards here, and typing out such dribble on "how to do it"!

 

[mixmkr]

THanks for all that!

The last time I had my guitar strings changed, I had someone else do it. This time, to save money, I did it myself. Not sure if it was a good idea, tho'. I also thing the fret area may need some adjustment, which is probably what the pro guitar stringer did.

This is kinda an example where there is NOTHING wrong with paying someone to "string up" yer gitter there...but I think this shows you need to get more intimate with your guitar and learn to do this kinda stuff yourself. (now...don't take it to bed or sumpin'!!...but I do that with new axes myself!!). It helps to develop your ear, and as a guitar player, you NEED to know how to do this...especially should one 'pop' on the gig on you It's not a rocket science, and there are unlimited sites on the internet to show you how, step by step.... Also, if the ear isn't quite there yet, an electronic tuner can save yer ass. Learn about the guitar as much as you can tolerate...just like you'd want to learn about your voice and vocal techniques. (as carving a jumbo auditorium outta an oak tree can lead to big-buck savings!! lol!)

 

[Robertt8]

wow, I've never heard of anyone bringing their guitar to someone to string. It's not a tennis racket! Just get yourself a cheap tuner and a set of strings and go to town it's about as difficult as emptying the dishwasher. It kind of sucks, but it needs to be done.

I'm sure I missed it, but what's up with the guitar? It sounds like an electric acoustic plugged in instead of mic'd. you're going to want to mic that puppy...and if you are mic-ing it, is it either a really cheap guitar and or mic? or perhaps its poor mic-ing technique.

 

[studioviols]

Vocal nervousness`

The 'promotion' of tension can be for some artists very good, but for most vocalists, it can effect a performance negatively and make getting a good recording very difficult.

When I approach the mic I let my belly fall out while I slightly bend my knees ... like I'm going to pass a little gas, seriously beavis now pay attention.

When you pass gass, you literally are physically focusing on pushing the diagphram and everything below it down, to force the gas out, and that fills your lungs with air.

Diaphram goes down, lungs fill with air.

A proper preparatory breath is essential to good singing, for most people.

Tension is almost always 'centered' in the abdominal region. When you look at a 'six pack' of stomach muscles, those top two beers are the key, tension in the top two will greatly limit how effective your preparatory breath is.

Tension in the abdominal region makes for all sorts of affects on the voice.

The next thing I do at the mic before singing is inhale using the weight of the belly that I have just let fall out. And then I exhale yoggically, starting by letting the air fall out of my chest, making tiny shoulder movements to release the chest area and then pushing air out of the mid-body, and then finally the belly, pushing the belly in dramatically, () and holding the belly as far in towards the backbone as possible.like someone is pressing a frisbee over your belly button), I feel that tension until I feel visceral warmth in my abdomen ... yes you are working your abdominals here forcing C02 out of these muscles and making them beg for oxygen.

Then bend the knees ever so slightly, let the belly fall out and begin the inhale from the belly once again ... SLOWLY ... gently.

I take three of these slow breath cycles, very concious of my physical movements and completely oxygenate all the tissues that are going to be 'singing'. I also always keep a glass of room temp water next to me.

This takes your mind off performance anxiety also, it dissassociates you from the proximity to the mic and the impending demand for excellence ... release, let it go.

I take a tiny sip of the water to start and hold that in my mouth while continuing to breath with measured gentle breaths. I open and flare all the cavity's in my head and throat as gently as possible, all the while breathing, holding the sip of water in my mouth.

I resist the urge to swallow the water, keeping the water in my mouth as long as possible. The air rushing in and out with these deep breaths is highly humidified by the water in your mouth and will moisten all the parts of your throat and sinuses. This will really sweeten you up.

If you aren't going for a 'clean' vocal, then get some gravel from the driveway ... and snort it ! <--- humor

Your mouth will already be producing a lot of saliva in response to the water. Your car engine uses oil to run smoothly, your voice uses saliva. Saliva is good for lots of things, but we are going to remain focused on singing ... k' gang

Tilt the head back ever so slightly, relax the neck, your head is like one of the cows in the back window of the car in front of you. GENTLY gargle with your 'stuff', lower the head, very gently clear the throat. SWALLOW, do not spit this lovely singing juice out, swallow it and get used to it.

DO NOT harshly clear the throat, this creates tension in the vocal chords. Gently. You can learn to very gently fling the thick flim off your chords with little tiny grunts, little gentle throat clearings.

Extend the arms out to the side ... stretch, breath, arms overhead, make fists with the hands, keep breathing, slowly, deeply, gently ... stretch, knees bent, yawn ... yeah baby YAWWWWNNNN.

This yawn is very important, this is where we have been headed the whole time. The yawn will cause you to gleat, and that is very, very good. Research gleat if ya want, it's complicated and it's a glandular thing.

All of this is to warm you, oxygenate you, relax you and lubricate you. Treat yourself nice at the mic, you'll be suprised at what you body will say ... and sing for you.

This will also release a lot of tension in the other parts of the body I have pointed out. But to get that yawn, you gotta go through the motions.

The whole point, is to get that yawn and get super oxygenated before you begin the track. You will be able to sing notes longer, and more evenly with cleaner tone ... and better intonation if you do these exercises.

 

[Shaky Tee]

Man!! This thread!! LOL!!!

I'd be really upset at being dissed, if there weren't so much good information in it!!

Yeah, I admit my guitar technique sucks, which is why I did the direct in deal. I've never played my guitar with a pic, and I wanted to get around having to learn to use one, yet going for a crisp sound.

the guitar I actually use IS a Baby Taylor, on which I installed a Seymour Duncan pickup. I guess I'm going to have to redo all of these with the B1 mic and see how it goes...

Either that, or just kill the compression on the guitar parts on ALL of them and see if that works (I'm kinda in a hurry to get this out)

Sometimes, I can't really help the way that my voice sounds, but it seems that, the older I get, the harder it is for me to get my throat to relax, so thanks studio for all of that.

Anyway...back to the drawing board, I guess...

I've taken all the acoustic songs down for further "tweaking"...

 

[Robertt8]

I'd suggest picking your favorite tune, mic the guitar around the 12th fret with the B1 (it's actually what I've been doing...big baby, and B1), and relax when you sing. You probably don't want to think of this, but you might want to see if you can get someone else to sing the song. you might be surprised how good it sounds if you can't avoid the sound you're getting now.

maybe even throw in another guitar part to kind of give a little more depth to the song. maybe something simple, but the people here are right, the guitaring (is that a word?) sounds maybe too simple.