Acoustic Mic'ing

[packratlouie]

My setup

Audio-Technica 3031 Condenser> Focusrite Trak Master Single Channel Pre-amp/Compressor/Eq>Cool edit

http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/profiles/AT3031.html

http://www.focusrite.com/products/platinum/trakmaster/specs.html

Also I have:
- Electro Voice PL76A condensor
- Shure Sm57

I am simply trying to record my acoustic without the horrible clicking of the pick. On its own, it sounds great. But once I mix it with the drums and bass, it sounds too percussive and clashes with the hi hats. I suppose their is some type of parametric filter plugin I can use for cool edit, but using whats in there doesnt correct much of the problem.

I have tried micing very close near the 12th fret, over the shoulder pointing down parallell with the sound hole, over the shoulder pointing at it.. I've tried alot of things. Since I'm recording on my own its hard to set my EQ and HPF's compression, tube warmth etc.

I havent really been recording very long, and I read alot in these forums which helps a great deal. I guess only having a one channel pre-amp could reduce my chance of success, but at least it's a good preamp.

I just dont know the way to get a nice clean sound from my low strings without the boomy bass. I want to get a nice even sounding tone without the distinct Highs and Lows. I also have a walkin closet with a few pieces of clothing still on the hangers. Tried recording in there, in the corner as well as a foot from the wall etc.... same issue.

Other than the pick issue, I guess I am just looking for any tips or suggestions/experiments.

Thanks

 

[SHEPPARDB.]

Recording my self playing the acoustic guitar has made me re-
think my entire approach to the instrument.
I have found that right hand position is just as important as mic
placement.
Try centering the mic at the 12 fret at a slight downward angle and angled slightly toward the headstock.I've been able to reduce
pic noise with this placement just by adjusting my rt hand placement.

 

[chessrock]

Other than the pick issue, I guess I am just looking for any tips or suggestions/experiments.

As for the "too much pick attack" thing, you could try using some compression and/or limiting creatively to help solve your problem.

Specifically, you could try a very short attack time -- basically set it as short as it will go. And experiment with release times (you'll probably want them medium to long).

By basically allowing for zero attack time, you can essentially de-emphasize the intial attack of the pick and bring out or elongate the resonance of the notes or chords.

As for the boomy problem on the bass notes and what not, your best bet is to familiarize yourself with a multiband compressor. I'm not going to trick you in to thinking that learning, understanding and being able to use one is an easy thing. It's taken me at least a few years of practice and experimentation to where I can comfortably use one and get the desired results I'm hoping for every time out -- but I'd say it was worth it.

 

[packratlouie]

As for the pick thing, I will try that. I guess I am just too hopped up on wanting to get the perfect pre-eq setting on my pre. Is cool edit pre-equipped (i just said pre 3 times) with the tools to ALLOW me to do any kind of compression/eq stuff that needs to be done to make a track sound a certain way, or is it equipped with poor filters etc. I think that I REALLY have to get used to them, and try for a while. I am just worried I'm wasting my time with their filters when I could be using another plugin which would be better for me to invest my time in.

As for the Audio-Technica mic im using, i posted the link to specs page up above. Is this something that I should be using. I mean, it sounds nice and crisp to my ear, but when I play back my material after adding subtle reverb, I can still hear the distance. Has to be me. Man the chinamen that build these things probably know more than I do haha.

Heres the sample

Now you can hear my madness... literally

 

[Armistice]

I'm with SHEPPARDB - I've had to totally rethink how I play as well.

Nice tip on the compression Chess, I'll give it a try.

 

[packratlouie]

Hmm, tell me if this is possible. I have 1 obviously "stereo" input on my sound card. Is there a way I can split that into 2 mono channels with a cable, and then have a feed from outputs of preamp (with 2 mics connected) to the split out input to soundcard? hmm... I should just buy the damn sound card with more than 1 input.

 

[John Sayers]

The boomyness is the proximity effect of the mike.

Either use the bass roll off on the mike (That's what it's there for) or roll off the extreme low end in cool edit.

I agree with shep about angling away from the right hand but that close you are going to get proximity effect.

Also, have you tried using softer picks?

cheers
john

 

[packratlouie]

I actually use quite a soft pick to begin with, I've tried thicker ones as well as different picking methods. I guess I'll just have to experiment. And maybe use that bass roll off to my advantage. Thanks

 

[Chibi Nappa]

You should be able to solve the problem without resorting to any compression or EQ. Try different picks, both harder and softer. Try a different headphone mix (maybe the performer can't hear right and is strumming too hard to make up for it). Try a different room. If you stand in the center of the room and the pick attack is too strong for your ears just listening to the guy play, the mic is screwed right off the bat. Try backing the microphone waaay the heck off the guitar 2 feet or more.

It's a pain, but it can be done.

 

[VSpaceBoy]

What gauge strings are on the guitar?? If the strings are a heavier gauge than the player is used to playing, then they will strike harder to make up for the loss of volume. Just a guess.

How about trying the "over the shoulder" mic placement.

On the pick, instead of going lighter, try a gauge or so heavier. That will dull it a bit. But then you would definately need to roll off the lows.

Ron

 

[packratlouie]

Hmm good info, Im going to try that stuff, but I am going to have to get a dummy in here to do my eq'ing for me while I play. Ive been running back and forth trying to do it myself, and believe me, Its no fun at all. Thanks for all the info though. Much appreciated

 

[KCandies]

hey first thing you should do to reduce pick noise is go to the least complicated step first.... which in this case is your pick. try using a lighter pic. try using a gentler stroke. then play with the mic. then move up to the boards and then finally go to effects if you ask me you shouldn't goto the unnatural (effects) to get rid of the natural (effects) first. Just a suggestion hope things work out.

 

[KCandies]

sorry for the natural in that last sentence i meant to say pick noise not effects...it's late and i've been drinkin take it easy and good luck

 

[slkeen]

Try using 2 mics, one pointed at about the 12th fret and one pointed at the body behind the bridge. Have the mics about 10-14 inches from the guitar. They should be the same distance or phase problems can happen. I find that when I mic too close, I get pick noise, and if I aim the mic towards the right hand the pick noise is worse. 2 mics sound so much better, the fret mic picks up the attack and sparkle, while the body mic picks up the wood sound. When you playback, they should sound very different. At first I thought the body mic sounded dull and flat, but when blended it with the fret mic, wow, it sounds just like my Seagull. Plus you can pan them apart and really open up the sound. I do lots of home recording of my Seagull and am getting very good results. Keep practicing and you'll find he sweet spot.

If you absolutely have to use one mic, try aiming it at the joint where the neck meets the body, about 12-18 inches away.

 

[packratlouie]

Alright, I shall give that a try. Thanks guys