Acoustic guitar - warm silk sound

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chuckschwandt
  • Start date Start date
Re: Silky

Hi John,

Your making me laugh again. I live way
back in the sticks of Western North
Carolina with the mountian folk. You
can visit anytime, you will only need
an interpretor for the Gomer Pyle accent - ha.

Have a great day my friend,
Chuck
 
Re: Re: Re: Pre Amp

Hi Ears,

Seems were in the same ball park on
the Dunlap picks. I have always used a
thin .38. I buy the 72 pack from AMS
for $12.00. It makes me glad to know
somebody else likes this approach.
I like the medium gage strings for
recording. Your right on, string size
does play a large role in getting a
warm sound, rather than thrash. I
initially thought light gage strings
would give me all the silk I needed,
but I only got harmonic problems,
like a comb filtering. The light gage
string brought other problems. So I
use the medium gage string, and get
the light gage effect from the pick instead.

Alot of silk is gained also from "Nashville
tuning". Have you ever heard of this one ?
You buy a 12 string set and use the main six
strings only. I hear it is one of the big boy
studio secrets - he he, the word is out now.

gaining in the silk,
Chuck
 
Hey Chuck,
Ya it's called Nashville tuning. I use a medium bronze phospher too on my old guild D25 with a small hump back.
(not me the guitar). It has a warm sound and the mediums are nice and shingy....
I actually use light on the first 2 and medium on the wounds. Strictly lead players don't like the thin pick for obvious reasons. I use a thicker pick on stage when I play electric, but I like the thins for the acoustic on stage and in the studio. Lately I have also been using all nails on my right strum hand. It has a real cool percussive sound try it.
 
Hi Ears,

Were getting somewhere in this thread - I love
it. It is amazing how every little piece of info
introduced can stack up to a great result.
Here is one that may help some too. I have
noticed that blocking early reflections
off the walls helps alot for me.

Thank much,
Chuck
 
hey chuck - I was bought up on Gomer - know the accent well
see yawl
 
Early reflections

Chuck,

Do you mean dampening the room in front of the guitar? Or what's coming back to the mic.

Some dampening material can eat up highs in the shhhing neighborhood in my experience. I try to keep the guitar away from any walls and give it air to breath. If it's not possible then I add a piezo to the mixer and in line the guitar. Come to think of it this also gives you shhing.

Try mixing the output of a pickup with the mic or mics.
You get raw string from the pickup and wood and string from the mic.
 
Re: Early reflections

Hi Ears,

Yep, I was referring to absorbing the early
reflections with baffles, cutting down on
the room response. I'm set up in a corner of
my house, so I get much reflection there.
I do like the direct in from the piezo too.
I have used that in the past on punchy songs.
Maybe I should just always assign a track
from the piezo when recording ? I play a
Lowden guitar with a Fishman natural one pick-up.
It has a nice live sound, but As you mentioned,
it needs the mic support to gain the silky
warmth in recording.

Thanks much,
Chuck
 
Chuckschwandt:

In general, I usually tend to look toward pres with tranformer inputs when using mics with transformerless outputs; such as the M147. Maybe something like a Neve 1272 or 1073. http://www.brentaverill.com or http://www.marquetteaudiolabs.com

On the other hand, I tend to look toward pres with transformerless inputs when using mics with transformer outputs such as a U67. Maybe something like a Buzz Audio MA 2.2 http://www.buzzaudio.co.nz

I MOST definetly recommend the Distressor. http://www.empiricallabs.com A very nice mono compressor and VERY "warm" indeed.

Now with the above said, if you were to use the M147, either Neve, and the distressor in the same chain, you MIGHT find that too "dark" for MOST things; maybe not.

So if you were to use a either Neve pres, you MIGHT reach for a more "transparent" compressor such as the RNC by FMR http://www.fmraudio.com or the likes. Or if you were to use a distressor, you may choose a more "neutral"/"in the middle" pre such as a Joe Meek http://www.joemeek.com pre or the likes.

That is of course, IF you decide you need a compressor at all. If you don't have a "decent" one, though, it's ALWAYS a good idea to keep one close by for when you need it.

Another idea I might suggest for a EXTREMELY versetile set-up (which is usually an important thing if don't have many "decent" pres and compressors) is a DaviSound TB-3. http://www.davisound.com It's a stereo solid-state pre and stereo tube/solid-state compressor. Meaning you can either have the tube in the compressor circuit or not.

Just some suggestions...
 
Reply to links

Hi Record engr,

Thank you for the links on preamps.
What do you know about "convertors".
When a signal goes from analog to digital
through the convertor do you think the
signal is warmed by the convertor itself?
A studio engineer in Pittsburgh said that
some are looping through these convertors
for the warmth alone, not for the conversion.
Have you heard of such a thing before ?

Chuck


[Edited by Chuckschwandt on 08-23-2000 at 12:33]
 
Hmmm...

Well obviously any A-D Converter will "color" the sound in some way. Just like everything else. It's just a matter of if you like that "color" or not.

With that said, I couldn't ever see ANYONE using an A-D Converter strickly it's "warmth". Obviously they'd choose the converters they like when they wanted or had to go into the digital realm... But strickly for "warmth"? I couldn't see why at all.

On the other hand, there are plenty of professional mastering engineers who will/do go back into the analog realm when they were given a product that was already in the digital realm and they feel it would be better to go back into the analog realm because they can't get what they want for a particular album or even for just one particular song on the album.
 
I bought a contact mic (I know... never use a contact mic) and glued it with hot melt glue to the treble side of the bridge. I can't see the name of the mic but it's the size of a quarter and has double sided tape for adhesion. It is waaaaaay too sensitive on the "sticky tape" side and
has an extremely bright sound in fact it sounds like crap. But on my mixer I turned the treble all the way down and the bass almost to maximum and mounted it upside down to reduce the gain. The result is a beautiful sustain of the harmonics and overtones. I also use a condenser and a dynamic mic panned R/L with the contact mic in the center. I think it is designed for use on a mandolin or violin and cost 20 bucks and I use it just for fill. I am recording a nylon string classic guitar and the results have been excellent with a full smooth sound.
 
I had a contact pick-up once before. I attached
it with silly puddy giving me the opportunity to move it around without hurting the guitar finish. Each guitar has
it's sweetest spot with any type transducer. contact types are so very sensitive as you mentioned. Putting something between the guitar and pick-up will help reduce the
sensitivity. I used puddy, but felt is good too.

Chuck
 
Contact mic

Maybe a Barcus Berry?

I use a thinline in my bridge from Martin, and a preamp.
Mix them both though (condenser mic and the pickup) and they sound nice. If you have to eq the hell out of the thing to kill treble,(probably high mids) it's because it needs a preamp like a Barcus Berry or Fishman, to do it's work.
You also should'nt have to boost the bass either. All that eq can take away your real guitar's sound as well do to phasing. Maybe it's a piezo pickup your speaking about?
 
Re: Contact mic

Hi Ears,

Have you ever been to a acoustic concert
and had one of those experiences where the
sound is awesome? The timbre coming through
the speakers is to wonderful to explain right.
I mean the bass is crystal clear and vibrates
the clothes on your back. The mids are not
nasel sounding and fake. The highs are not
shrill and harsh. I rarely hear such a acoustic
sound, even in recordings. One time I heard it,
and decided it was time to find out the trick.
I talked to "Rosco" at the CD table after their
concert, Geoff Moore's acoustic guitarist. I
asked him what he was using to get such a punchy
balanced sound. He said "just the guitar only".
I didn't want to believe him, but he convinced
me after talking a bit to him. He played a
"James Olson" acoustic; the guitars that take
18 months to get after you order ($5500.). He
claims the instrument is the key in getting the
right sound. Most acoustics have that weird fake
mid range. The Olson guitars are built in a way
where that is not a big issue. James Taylor, Phil
Keggy, and others play nothing but Olson guitars.
I'm still dreaming about owning one - ha. All
our processing ideas are great and useful, but
maybe the instrument still holds the golden key
in the search for the ultimate sound.

Chuck
 
Recording Magazine

The latest issue of Recording Magazine,
now arriving at our homes has a great
article on Joe Meek pre-amp gear.
The VCQ3 pro channel and the VCQ6 British
channel are both completely evaluated.
The author, Mr. Stunt suggested using
these units for acoustic guitars.
He believes they will function well with
most mics. - I like the fact that Joe Meek
included a compressor and equalizer in
these preamps. The VCQ6 has sweepable mids
too; especially great for acoustic guitars.
When doing a gig, it is nice to have all
those extras in the preamp. There is nothing
more frustrating than patching in and out of
compressors and equalizers in the back of
the rack, not to mention the lost space in
the rack and signal loss at connections. -
There is some history in the article about
Joe Meek too. Mr Stunt explains how this
guy initally createdhis own sound since he
couldn't find it anywhere else. Now he sells
what he created. Suggested retail is $599.
on the British channel.

Top of the day,
Chuck
 
Yeah,
The guitar is the thing that starts it all.
I have a 25 yr old Guild D25 that I love. I bought it new.
It sounds better every year. Larivee makes a great guitar as well.

[Edited by Ears on 08-23-2000 at 16:44]
 
Well, I'm glad I hung in this thread long enough to finally reach the truth - it's the instrument more than anything else. You want a warm, silky sound? Get a warm, silky guitar. Somebody on another board was asking: "Hey how do I get my female vocals to sound airy, like Sarah McLachlan?" and the answer, of course, was: "Ditch your present vocalist and get Sarah to do it."
 
Reply to Dobro

Hi Dobro,

Yes, we finally came around to the instrument,
like chasing a signal. How about wood ? I favor
the rosewood bodied guitars. Mahagony is brighter
to me and only adds to the harshness in the
recording. I used a D-18 on my last project, and
wished I never went down that road. If it was a
D-28, I would of probably had better results.

Chuck
 
Yeah, I have a friend who plays an Olson. they are made in Minnesota. Olson guitars are absolutely fine. I exclusively play Breedlove guitars. They start at about $2000 and can go way up. Breedloves are handmade one at a time by Steve Henderson in Tumalo Oregon. If you have never heard one, I suggest you do. when I got into high end acoustic instruments, I got my hands on anything I could play (Taylor, Martins, Guilds, Takamines). When I took one strum on an SC20 walnut Breedlove, it was love at first strum. The onlly other guitar that could come close were Lowdens (handmade in North Ireland). Lowdens are absolutely awesome guitars! Here are two links:

http://www.breedloveguitars.com
http://www.dognameddavid.com

Dog Named David is an acoustic duo. On there site you can listen to their music. They play Lowdens, Breedloves, and one Olson. Great Music!!!

-gman
 
Don’t forget to tune. A properly tuned instrument and true strings will make a huge difference. Some strings are just not true and should be discarded. Before paying mega bucks for a new guitar try buying a quartz tuner and make sure your guitar is properly set up. I can’t believe how many recordings get produced with out of tune instruments. You also have to now know how to play. A good musician can make a bad instrument sound good and visa versa. Practice practice practice.

Spending money is not always the solution.
 
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