acoustic guitar sounds out of place in the mix

M

mojovoodoo

New member
the acoustic guitars i tracked(which i thought i did a standard job)are coming across being hit too hard,which normally isn't a problem. but these songs are slow ballads.i mean normally i would just redo the guitars ,but this is just how i play the guitar.i used an akg c2000.so i am wondering,am i using the compression wrong in the mix?it's not a matter of turning the guitar down,i need to be able to hear the soft parts at the same volume as the loud parts ,yet not so obviously compressed,i am new to digital recording,i am using protools,and i have all these plugin compressors,limiters,channel strip,yet it is so visually overwhelming,as some of these compressors have so many dials and graphs and so forth.does anyone have any suggestions?maybe it's not compression i need?anything,please?
 
Any way to post a clip? It'd be easier to make a guess if we could hear the problem.
 
A (not really) silly suggeston

Well, why not try it *without* the guitars. :-) If you can't make them fit in the mix, try using something else do do the same job as the guitars, or just skip them altogether.

That's what I do if something doesn't work out. :) It's usually easier to do something totally different that fixing the problem with what you tried to do in the first place, and it often results in more interesting results. :)
 
What kind of playing is the acoustic part? Strumming? Picking? Leads? All of the above?

I like to use very thin picks for strumming parts if I don't want the acoustic to be the featured instrument. That way you get more of percusive sound and the acoustic's shimmer than the body of the guitar. Plus, there isn't as drastic a volume change when strumming real hard and strumming normal.
 
i wish i could clip it and paste it here but last time i tried to put a song out on line ,it takes too long, i tried converting to mp3 ,wav file, and real player(this is another issue altogether)it still disconnects before it can attatch file.anyway,the song is not mine,it is my sister's and there are specific acoustic tracks that she has.i just play too goddamn hard,i don't wanna retrack i am sick too death of recording and editing(whine,bitch and moan),i have been tracking and editing since february.now i am starting to have fun ,i love mixing and all that fun stuff.the parts are played strumming,no solos on acoustic,i just have a heavy hand,i play with a medium pick,the mixes have drums,bass ,electric guitars, vocals,organ and piano.i would think the acoustic would have been buried under all that crap,but it still gets too aggressive,and within the context of the song,it should get loud: it comes way down then builds up again and i play dynamically with it.i tried it with and without compression.it still soumds freaky.i mic'd it with a condenser and one dynamic,the dynamic was a mistake,but now if i mute the dynamic mic channel,the other gets too thin.aaargghhh!i know i am sitting and bitching too much,i guess i should let my ears rest,i was mixing for 12 hours and it all turned into mud after a while,so please forgive my annoying diatribe,i been sitting in front of the computer too long,i need sun and air.but please i need to try new mixes tomorrow,anybody got more suggestions?thanx all!
 
From your description it sounds like you didn't play it very well and you're looking for an easy way out. Retracking is the obvious solution.

About all I can recomend is finding a couple good parts in the performance and cutting and pasting them. You can't really polish a turd but you can at least pick the corn out.
 
When you compress the acc. guitar tracks, try using a very fast attack time. And don't use an opto-compressor. That could help out somewhat, as it sounds like you've got too much attack as it is, and compression might add to that problem if you've got a slow attack time.
 
yeah tex,actually idid record good tracks,i don't wanna retrack because i have done them too many times,it would be a long story ,but the songs used to be sloppy from drummers slowing down and speeding up,but with the magic of protools,you can edit a drummer to sound like they are a freakin metronone(this is what i am used to playing with)so...... blah balh,nonetheless i have tracked with the bad drums corrected them and then tracked over again. i saved the best takes,which were totally on the meter and still contain the dynamics of the song,but i am extremely critical and want things perfect,but enough is enough!! i have tracked over and over again because this is my little sister's project and nuthin is too good for her,but even she can tell that at a certain point,you can redo take after take but even the most discerning ear won't know the difference but me,no,the problem i have is more of a mixing problem!i got no bones about the waY i play a song,i am way too critical to let a shitty take just slip through,the problem i have is making acoustic guitars fit with the drums ,bass,electrics,and keys in the mix.the thing that is troubling me most importantly is how to make the guitar sound right in the mix,i mean,i can record tomorrow,and i would change the mic'ing technique,but still the same,i am gonna catch a lot of sh*t for retaking tracks 60billion times because i want perfection.so no in several unecessary words ...the performance is good and right on,the problem lies with my mic'ing and my mixing(i just want things to sound like a band playing together) i need exact precise advice like what chessrock gave,ya know? sorry for getting soooooooooo defensive but i think the whole mixing thing has brought me to a point of blissful delirium!!!
 
You may try copying the offending track, then processing the copy with some convolution-type reverb (I use Samplitude's Room Simulator with a patch from TC M3000...great stuff)...then blend in to taste...the reverbed track can soften the apparent attack of the original track.

Another thing I have success with is convoluting the copy track with 4-5% reverb , and just muting the original during mixing. This method gives the track a sound similar to being recorded in a very large room...

If all else fails, use EQ to cut everything over 10K, and soften 8K a little...this can take the immediate 'harshness' out of an acounstic.
 
With acoustic rock stuff *if the acoustic guitar isn't the main focus, and especially if there is allot of stuff going on*, I cut mercilessly below 250k, and pan off center.

You still get the nice acoustic jangle, and the lows and low mids don't gunk up the bass, kick, electric guitar, vox, etc.

If I'm feeling retarded sometimes I'll do exactly the opposite.

-Jett
 
mojovoodoo said:
the performance is good and right on,the problem lies with my mic'ing and my mixing(i just want things to sound like a band playing together) i need exact precise advice like what chessrock gave,ya know? sorry for getting soooooooooo defensive but i think the whole mixing thing has brought me to a point of blissful delirium!!!
Click to expand...

Can you post a rough mix? Otherwise we are just talking out our asses. You might as well ask what shade of blue we would reccomend. Compression and bass cuts usually work for me as a general rule.
 
which shade of blue looks better?ha ,you're right,and i gotta get this sh*t together,so how can i post this song here?i can do aiff file a wav file or whatever protools converts when bouncing to disc.maa-aaan,i ask sooo many questions,huh?i have become soooo high maintanance,relying on this web site everyday.well in conjunction with all y'all are speaking of,i have bomb factory compressors and rta reverbs and la6 something or other they are these green plug in compressors with faders and filters,and whatever standard compressors and d verbs come with protools,but not the reverb you mentioned,tex.familiar with any of these plug ins?tell me how to post the songs ,cause i gotta get workin on this stuff,and i need some new ears--thanx
 
The easiest way to post stuff would be to start up a free account at www.nowhereradio.com You need to convert your mixes to MP3 and there are some handy free convertors if you don't have anything already. Musicmatch Jukebox is a decent one.

Some general things to try-

Bass cut with EQ around 125-250hz
Reverb with the same bass cut and roll off the highs around 12k
Compression with 10:1 ratio, 0-15ms attack and 80-100ms release. Play with the threshold until it sounds good.
 
tex,can i email you the song?i don't wanna post a rough mix on a site that promotes artists.not until the whole thing is mixed and mastered at least.i have it on an mp3 and would like some advice from different ears.
this be my email adress:johnnymojo666@yahoo.com
 
Chessrock gave you A+ advice. Have you tried it yet?

A compressor set with the barest minimum of attack time will smooth out your tracks.

Try it.
 
yeaa i tried a few different things,there are a few presets,so i tried the british compression preset,and i did a 4 band e.q..the problem i believe is that it was just too bright ,and so when i strummed hard,it really cut through.i just burned another c.d. to listen to,i am gonna check it out .i am using the alesis m1 active mk2 monitors,and they sit right in front of my face,so i think that's why i am missing some crucial sounds in the mix.it helps to walk out of the room and listen i guess.
 
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