Acoustic guitar recording - Over shoulder + 12th Fret

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Fretz1

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Summary: Basically my question is i've been using this mic technique but can never get it sounding quite right.


Hi guys,

Wondering if anyone here can give me a little help, I've been trying a new technique to record acoustic guitar and I actually quite like it and realised it's a fairly obvious and well known stereo technique for acoustic guitar. I'm recording just the acoustic guitar on it's own. It will be mixed later with just vocals so it'll be a sparse mix (thought I better state that). So it won't be with a ton of other instruments or anything.

Basically you put 1 mic over the right shoulder at about ear height pointed down at between the sound hole / bridge and the other mic pointed at / around the 12th fret and pan the microphones hard left and right.

This is apparently a technique Boyce avenues producer likes to use and he pans the mics hard left and right https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhAlV...PvO_2AvqJZHXFg here is an example of their stuff. I do like the sound of their acoustic guitar even though some people may disagree.

Basically my question is I've been using this technique but can never get it sounding quite right.... if I pan it hard left and right it always sounds a little odd.... I think it's phase issues I guess (I Know all about phase just not had a lot of practise avoiding it). Tried a phase aligning plugin and that helps a bit but still sounds odd so I assume it's best to get mics properly in phase rather than trying to fake it. Also how do you deal with volume differences between the mics? do you just boost the quieter one with the preamp or move them closer / further till they are in balance?

Does anyone else use this technique and have any good tips on how to nail a good sound from it? how far do you like to place the mics etc? I assume moving the mics around while playing is best solution till it sounds "right" I may have to get my friend to play for me whilst I try it though. Also anyone feel free to give your overall opinion on this technique.


Any help is super appreciated!

Thanks!

Edit: I'm using oktava mk012 pair of sdcs
 
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mjbphotos said:
There are a lot of variables. Before you posted this question, you shoudl have read the sticky at the top of this section of the forums, Acoustic Guitar Recording 101
Click to expand...

I did, but all the links are dead so I couldn't really hear anything or have anything to compare to.

That's also what i'm struggling with, a sound to "aim" for.

On a side note I wonder if anybody who uses this technique could post a couple of their raw acoustic guitar tracks for comparison?

Thanks
 
I tried over the shoulder, tried all sorts of things. If you are going to use condensers, and this was alluded to in the sticky, your room is going to play into it.

I am working on a recording now, got a nice acoustic sound using an SM58 between the bridge and sound hole. Up close, about 6 inches from the guitar. You could always then add a condenser to the 12th fret area to get the fattness. For me, I think the condensers are working due to the room. I am working on that, something you could give it a try.

But over the shoulder is far enough away the room is going to play into the recording. Might be what you are fighting.
 
Isntead of pointing at the 12th fret, point that mic at the body behind the bridge. The phase issue wont happen because the sound coming into the two mics is not coherent.
 
I tried what Farview said, it gave it more bottom. It was pretty good, close mic'd to keep the room out. For comparison, I did a dynamic between the bridge and the whole and condenser on the 12th, it gave it a more full acoustic sound.

Either way, I thought both ways would be useful depending on your need. No phasing issues on either recording for me.
 
Some of it depends on the guitar. Bright guitars benefit more from the behind the bridge mic placement than darker sounding guitars do.
 
DM60 said:
I tried over the shoulder, tried all sorts of things. If you are going to use condensers, and this was alluded to in the sticky, your room is going to play into it.

I am working on a recording now, got a nice acoustic sound using an SM58 between the bridge and sound hole. Up close, about 6 inches from the guitar. You could always then add a condenser to the 12th fret area to get the fattness. For me, I think the condensers are working due to the room. I am working on that, something you could give it a try.

But over the shoulder is far enough away the room is going to play into the recording. Might be what you are fighting.
Click to expand...

I will have to give this a try and experiment more, I do like the over shoulder sound i've heard elsewhere. I must be messing up somehow.
 
As have been stated, the room is going to play into the recording the further away your mic is. Over the shoulder has at least a two feet of distance. That is a lot of space.

I would suggest making sure the room is tuned to get a good sound as a part of the exercise. Treat the room for the sound you want (not the same as for mixing), get that right, then you can play with the mics and placement. If the room sounds bad, best you can do is close mic placement to remove the room from the recording. That limits you to some of the suggestions already provided. There are only about three or four places to mic up close.
 
Just a week ago I got the best sounding acoustic guitar recording I've ever had. It was my first attempt at mid/side recording. I was using some pretty nice gear though...an sE Electronics RN17 as the mid mic and a Royer R122 for the side channels, going through a Millennia HV3C. Superb sound and wonderful recording...so far. I've only recorded guitar and bass tracks and have yet to record vocals, mandolin, and possibly banjo. But give mid/side recording a try. I found the sweet spot to be about the 14th fret on my Altman A D1 mahogany dread.


Tom
 
drbluezz said:
Just a week ago I got the best sounding acoustic guitar recording I've ever had. It was my first attempt at mid/side recording. I was using some pretty nice gear though...an sE Electronics RN17 as the mid mic and a Royer R122 for the side channels, going through a Millennia HV3C. Superb sound and wonderful recording...so far. I've only recorded guitar and bass tracks and have yet to record vocals, mandolin, and possibly banjo. But give mid/side recording a try. I found the sweet spot to be about the 14th fret on my Altman A D1 mahogany dread.
Tom
Click to expand...

Lucky you! Most people that are starting here and asking these types of questions don't have $6K+ worth of gear to work with!
 
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I know I have posted this before but it is all I have of him that is moot and suitable.

I am not sure what my son used but likely a Sontronics STC-2 LDC in a "crap" bedroom of 1800cuft, into a Berry X802 feeding a 2496 and Samplitude SE8 (magazine freebee)

The guitar was a pretty low end Crafter 12string re strung as a 6.

The original .wav is coded MP3 at 320/vbr.

Dave.
 

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