Acoustic Guitar Recording - Can't get a crisp sound (user error?)

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johnthomas19

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Hello recording experts!

I’m having some real trouble recording at home. I hope that I’m just overlooking an easy step or two. Can anyone here offer me any advice or guidance? I am looking to record Acoustic guitar and vocals only – and I’m struggling to get a good sound. Here’s my hardware and software:

Fender Acoustic Guitar - I have a pretty nice Fender acoustic electric guitar that I bought 5 or so years ago for about $800, I believe it has a built in Fishman preamp. It’s been recorded in the past at ‘real’ studio and sounds pretty good. I am plugging into the jack and heading out to my powered mixer…

Kustom Power Mixer – I am using a 5 channel powered mixer with two 8 Ohm outs and record out plugs. This is the box I use when I play live shows at restaurants. It’s pretty powerful for a crowded bar. I am trying to record out from the red/white record ports to the microphone input jack on my…

ASUS Notebook N80- running a 64-bit operating system. Windows Vista home premium – The sound devices are: NVIDIA-HDMI Audio and Realtek High Definition

Recording Software – ACID Pro 7.0

I’m trying to record all guitar first – and then overlay vocal. The microphone I will be using is a newer model Shure Beta. Everything is plugged into a single surge protector.
Here’s where I’m stuck. Again, I have my guitar plugged into the mixer and the mixer heading out (via the red / white record slots) to my laptop’s microphone port. When I launch ACID pro and try to record, the sound is so distorted and muffled. What am I missing? Can anyone help?

Additional available gear I have:
I also have a few extra Shure mic’s, a fender electric guitar amp, and a little 4 channel behringer mixer.
 
Personally I would never record anything using the mic jack of a computer. I would recommend a small interface. That should make a big difference.
 
It sounds like your levels are too hot because you're probably sending a line level signal from your PA into an input designed to accept mic level signals. Are there options for controlling the input level on the mic input of your laptop? Or maybe an output level control on the PA? If so, turn them down. If not, try skipping the pa and plugging the guitar directly into the mic input on your laptop (you'll need an adapter for this). Hopefully there is some sort of level control on the guitar's preamp.

If that's the problem though (line level signal to mic level input), none of these are that likely to work. You'd probably need some sort of attenuating adapter, like this Shure A15LA - Line Adapter A15LA B&H Photo Video
 
Potsy24 said:
It sounds like your levels are too hot because you're probably sending a line level signal from your PA into an input designed to accept mic level signals. Are there options for controlling the input level on the mic input of your laptop? Or maybe an output level control on the PA? If so, turn them down. If not, try skipping the pa and plugging the guitar directly into the mic input on your laptop (you'll need an adapter for this). Hopefully there is some sort of level control on the guitar's preamp.

If that's the problem though (line level signal to mic level input), none of these are that likely to work. You'd probably need some sort of attenuating adapter, like this Shure A15LA - Line Adapter A15LA B&H Photo Video
Click to expand...

But... if you're going to have to start buying things, there are probably better ways to spend the money. I'm just trying to give some options for using the equipment you already have. It seems like too many answers around here are "Buy better stuff".
 
A lot of the time "buy better stuff" is the correct answer.

Like in this case.

The output of a Fishman bridge pickup through a cheap mixer into the mic input of a gaming card isn't exactly hi-fi.

And $5 says with that hardware setup the Acid software is a crack!
 
Interface. Ask specific questions to get better idea of what you need.

Better mic. Ask specific questions to get a better idea of what you need.

Don't use the pickup.

practice practice practice (at recording).

Save at least $300.
 
c7sus said:
A lot of the time "buy better stuff" is the correct answer.

Like in this case.

The output of a Fishman bridge pickup through a cheap mixer into the mic input of a gaming card isn't exactly hi-fi.

And $5 says with that hardware setup the Acid software is a crack!
Click to expand...

Yes, in a perfect world the op would buy a decent sdc, preamp, and interface. But, that's not what he has right now. While he'll have a hard time getting pro quality sound, there's most likely a better way to use the gear that he already has.

That rule really applies to everyone though, skill is always going to be more valuable than gear (even with great gear).
 
As Potsy points out - to work with what the guy has now. Does the laptop have line-in jacks? What no one has explained to him is that the A-to-D converters in factory soundcards in laptops are made with cheap components. Great for Skype, etc, but not for recording.
 
mjbphotos said:
As Potsy points out - to work with what the guy has now. Does the laptop have line-in jacks? What no one has explained to him is that the A-to-D converters in factory soundcards in laptops are made with cheap components. Great for Skype, etc, but not for recording.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, duh! Line in, not mic in. I didn't even think of that. You get an extra punch on your MacGyver card.
 
I want to thank everyone for the helpful feedback. It sounds like my number 1 issue is trying to use the mic in line on my laptop. I am not opposed to spending money to buy an adapter or something like that. Are you guys saying I should go from guitar (via the jack or mic'd up) to the pwr'd mixer, out to some sort of adapter that connects via USB to my laptop?

I'm sorry if I'm confusing myself. Any guidance on a configuration that I could use?

Appreciate all of you.
 
You're going to get a better quality recording micing the guitar through a USB AD/DA than through the mic input on your laptop.

Any of the units I listed above would allow you to bypass the mixer because they have integrated mic/instrument preamps.

You could run the output of any of those units through your mixer for playback through your monitors. You'd want headphones to monitor overdubs so you don't have a feedback loop when using a mic.
 
johnthomas19 said:
I want to thank everyone for the helpful feedback. It sounds like my number 1 issue is trying to use the mic in line on my laptop. I am not opposed to spending money to buy an adapter or something like that. Are you guys saying I should go from guitar (via the jack or mic'd up) to the pwr'd mixer, out to some sort of adapter that connects via USB to my laptop?

I'm sorry if I'm confusing myself. Any guidance on a configuration that I could use?

Appreciate all of you.
Click to expand...

Sort of. Here are four options in order of best to worst (and pretty much most to least expensive):

1. Get a decent small diaphragm condenser to mic your guitar. A Shure SM81 is a good choice, $200 would be a good used price. A cheaper option would be a Shure SM57, which you could buy for $60 used. Then plug this mic into a USB interface that has one or more mic preamps in it. I really don't know what a good USB interface would be, but here is an example of a random one: M-Audio Fast Track USB | Sweetwater.com Then you would connect the interface to your laptop through usb, follow the directions and start recording.

2. The second one would be to skip the mic and plug your guitar into the DI input on that same interface.

3. The third option would be to plug your guitar into a DI box (ART ZDirect | Sweetwater.com) and then run a cable from the DI box output to the mic input of your laptop. You would need either a special cable or an adapter, since most DI's will have an XLR out.

4. Keep using the PA, but put some kind of attenuator (pad) between the PA and the laptop mic input.
 
Just giving a ditto on what c7sus suggested, if he would kindly stop reading my mind and posting before I do :D

If you wanted to record something without a recorder, then you have no other choice but to get something to record with. There is just some minimum gear requirements that the OP doesn't meet at this point. However, he is now looking into that so lets see where it goes.

Ditto to Potsy, very helpful suggestions
 
Taking everyone's advice to heart. I'm doing a little research on condensing mics and audio interfaces. Today I remembered that I bought a little CREATIVE Sound Blaster USB soundcard / driver years back (probably 8 years back). I thought I'd give it a chance since it lets me bypass using the mic line on my laptop. Right away I noticed a much crisper sound. I've attached a little 30 second sample of me playing. But I'd love to hear your feedback on how you feel the quality is. I'm getting a little bit of choppy-ness, I'm guess from Vista running other programs in the background - but I'm not sure. Also, I'm not sure I like how you can pick up every slide of my hand...

Any thoughts?

JT

View attachment Sample1.mp3
 
Potsy24 said:
Yes, in a perfect world the op would buy a decent sdc, preamp, and interface. But, that's not what he has right now. While he'll have a hard time getting pro quality sound, there's most likely a better way to use the gear that he already has.

That rule really applies to everyone though, skill is always going to be more valuable than gear (even with great gear).
Click to expand...

Yeah...but...

I've been practising for 40+ years and I can't make the mic input on a Realtek built in interface sound like anything other than rubbish. Even if I attenuate the line level signal down to something it can accept, you're still running through what passes for a pre amp there which is adding noise, a skewed frequency response and a general naff sound. Even for Skype calls that I care about, I tend to run through an interface rather than use the Realtek.

The OP has a decent guitar and a decent (even if not ideal for guitar) microphone. The huge limiting factor right now is the Realtek mic input and getting even a basic interface will give the biggest bang for the buck in terms of improvement. A line to mic attenuator, on the other hand, will be wasted money. It may seem cheaper now but it won't deliver the sound that is wanted.
 
johnthomas19 said:
Taking everyone's advice to heart. I'm doing a little research on condensing mics and audio interfaces. Today I remembered that I bought a little CREATIVE Sound Blaster USB soundcard / driver years back (probably 8 years back). I thought I'd give it a chance since it lets me bypass using the mic line on my laptop. Right away I noticed a much crisper sound. I've attached a little 30 second sample of me playing. But I'd love to hear your feedback on how you feel the quality is. I'm getting a little bit of choppy-ness, I'm guess from Vista running other programs in the background - but I'm not sure. Also, I'm not sure I like how you can pick up every slide of my hand...

Any thoughts?

JT

View attachment 71997
Click to expand...

Soundblaster cards are made for gaming and don't have great a-to-d converters. No doubt you noticed a difference, but you'll notice even more by getting a true audio interface.
 
johnthomas19 said:
Also, I'm not sure I like how you can pick up every slide of my hand...
Click to expand...

I liked what you played and its a great start. As Mike B said, you will get even better sound with a decent audio interface. Then you will hear your muscles creaking under your skin :)

Dont worry about the sounds that go along with playing your guitar, it makes it sound real. After a while you learn to eliminate much of it by a subtle change in style but don't lose sleep over it. If you filtered out those sounds, then the guitar sounds you want would be filtered out as well. I thought it was pretty good. Experience will make it better
 
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