Acoustic Guitar Mics... Any Thought? (No Large Diaphragms)

Somebody asked about your particular SE mic recently and I stated that I felt that the mic sounded ok, but it picked up more than its share of room noise.

I stand by that statement.

I think you need a tighter mic.

What's the budget? SM 81 is good on acoustic.
 
brother rat said:
I am a fan of simple solutions, so what I'm offering here is not meant as a joke nor to be rude.
I would consider breathing through your mouth and using a snorkel to redirect the air coming out of your mouth away from the microphone or near the null of the microphone. You will probably get some resonance in the snorkel from the moving air. Maybe you could wrap it in a deadening material. Or you could try making a sort of Jecklin Disk to place in between your face and the microphone.
Thinking about this, it actually sounds like fun to fool around with some of these techniques...
...I'm off to the garage to look for an old snorkel.
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Bro Rat! LMAO, LOL, etc. This the simple solution? You my friend are a studio innovator! This is the most bizarre response/solution that I have ever read on these pages. (and there was some very tough competition for that honor) I keep picturing a guy sitting in a studio wearing scuba gear. :)

No offense BTW, this gave me a much needed laugh.
 
I record a lot of people live when playing the guitar and singing, even acoustic guitars recording live in a room with a band, lots of spill problems. My goto mic when in this situation is a Sennheiser K3-U body with a ME40 capsule, has great rejection (to reduce the breathing noise) and sounds great on acoustic instruments.

You will have to look for a second hand one as they are not around new (and would be expensive if they were) but second hand you will get one between $100 and $200.

Or play the Guitar louder so you don't hear the breathing.

Alan.
 
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Hey Alan - I'll do a bit of research into that mic.
Thanks.

My budget is $400 and lower.
Hopefully that will get me something decent.
I do agree that the opening of my mouth wider and calm breathing is good makes a difference.
I hope with more practice I'll get better at this.

BTW, I laughed my butt off, when I read Brother Rat's, "scuba sam" idea.
 
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I personally prefer small diaphragm condensers for acoustic guitar anyway. I'd personally recommend you look into SE1A small diaphragm condensers...you should be able to get a pair of these for around your budget.

If pickup of your breathing is an issue, try to experiment with mic placement...moving your mics slightly above your guitar pointed at a downwards angle should put your breathing in the less sensitive zone of a typical cardioid, whether small or large diaphragm while still doing a good job on the guitar.

...and to Richard Monroe, a cardioid pattern is a cardioid pattern whether the diaphragm is small or large. Things like an AKG C451EB, AKG C391 or even the SE1A are no less directional (or more like the fish eye lens on a motel door) than comparable LDC mics.
 
LOL, I'm glad everyone found some humor in the idea!
I've tried many a wacky solution. Not all of them are winners, of course.
On some occasions, the wacky solution is the right solution!


On a more serious note, I've heard of plenty of people getting great acoustic guitar sound with dynamic mics. The lower sensitivity might not pick up your breathing. I've never tried that method myself - not wacky enough!
 
I will definitely checkout the SE1A.

Brother Rat, I do have a couple of dynamic mics, but haven't tried those. I don't know why I haven't tried them, but I will try those as well!
 
I've used Shure 545SH on acoustic from time to time. When I did, the guitar was going into a busy mix, not solo. Obviously it's going to give you a rounder sound with a LOT less transients.
Neither here nor there but I really like an AT4033 on acoustic guitar.
 
I like to use an omni placed at least 24" away, and I haven't noticed the problem since I did that.

For quieter solo acoustics stuff I use an x-y SDC pair about 18" from the 12th fret, and even quiet finger picking I don't really notice it.
 
aaronmcoleman said:
I like to use an omni placed at least 24" away, and I haven't noticed the problem since I did that.

For quieter solo acoustics stuff I use an x-y SDC pair about 18" from the 12th fret, and even quiet finger picking I don't really notice it.
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This is great I'll be trying this tonight!

I still want to build that iso box for my head... just cause it's weird and wacky! :wtf:
 
I have an older Sennheiser dynamic omni that I use on acoustic sometimes. Also some of the older AKG dynamics that can be had for little money on ebay can be cool on acoustic guitar.

Dynamics and omnis offer certain advantages when recording acoustics. They can certainly be more forgiving of many things.
 
Richard Monroe said:
Just the reverse, Capacity! We *all* have that problem. It is an unfortunate fact of life that microphones are made to pick up sound, and that's what they do. You can't train them to ignore unwanted noise, and mostly, you can't remove that unwanted noise after the fact without removing part of the music, if at all. We of the acoustic persuasion suffer the most, because our source is very delicate. You can cover up a lot of noise with a death metal band, not so much with a mandolin. I am lucky enough to have a room that shuts out most of the outside world, but not the house. When the red light is on, my wife is exiled to the 3rd floor bedroom to read quietly with the cats, who are also banished. No one can walk on the second floor, or use the bathroom. Television? Not without headphones. I have to unplug the sump pump, turn off the heat, kill the pool timer (it ticks), lose the watch (the Neumanns can hear it ticking 10' away). I know the train schedules by heart. The simple horrifying fact is that recording acoustic music requires absolute elimination of ambient noise, and good mics and preamps will reveal noises you didn't even know were there. Furthermore, the more noise you have, the more it costs to make it go away. Do a search on "vocal booth", which is sort of an isolation box for humans. It's a royal pain in the ass, but it might be a partial solution for you. We all feel your pain, and every one of us that records acoustic music has been where you are. We're there for you, but there really is no magic wand. Mics record whatever sound is there, and you can't really change that. Good luck.-Richie
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Great post, Rich, regarding quiet acoustic sources. I have to turn off the HVAC, the refridgerator, and the vintage clock, as well as banish all life-forms to the basement, and then only record in between the truck traffic on my street and the lawn-mowing in my neighborhood.
 
Richard Monroe said:
Just the reverse, Capacity! We *all* have that problem. It is an unfortunate fact of life that microphones are made to pick up sound, and that's what they do. You can't train them to ignore unwanted noise, and mostly, you can't remove that unwanted noise after the fact without removing part of the music, if at all. We of the acoustic persuasion suffer the most, because our source is very delicate. You can cover up a lot of noise with a death metal band, not so much with a mandolin. I am lucky enough to have a room that shuts out most of the outside world, but not the house. When the red light is on, my wife is exiled to the 3rd floor bedroom to read quietly with the cats, who are also banished. No one can walk on the second floor, or use the bathroom. Television? Not without headphones. I have to unplug the sump pump, turn off the heat, kill the pool timer (it ticks), lose the watch (the Neumanns can hear it ticking 10' away). I know the train schedules by heart. The simple horrifying fact is that recording acoustic music requires absolute elimination of ambient noise, and good mics and preamps will reveal noises you didn't even know were there. Furthermore, the more noise you have, the more it costs to make it go away. Do a search on "vocal booth", which is sort of an isolation box for humans. It's a royal pain in the ass, but it might be a partial solution for you. We all feel your pain, and every one of us that records acoustic music has been where you are. We're there for you, but there really is no magic wand. Mics record whatever sound is there, and you can't really change that. Good luck.-Richie
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My fiance just read this post and said if I start banishing anywhere, when I want to record, there won't be a wedding!
but a vocal booth might be something to think about. I build a spray booth for my company, so I'm sure I can build a vocal booth. I'll look into it!
Thanks for the reply!
 
Bobbsy said:
I personally prefer small diaphragm condensers for acoustic guitar anyway. I'd personally recommend you look into SE1A small diaphragm condensers...you should be able to get a pair of these for around your budget.

If pickup of your breathing is an issue, try to experiment with mic placement...moving your mics slightly above your guitar pointed at a downwards angle should put your breathing in the less sensitive zone of a typical cardioid, whether small or large diaphragm while still doing a good job on the guitar.

...and to Richard Monroe, a cardioid pattern is a cardioid pattern whether the diaphragm is small or large. Things like an AKG C451EB, AKG C391 or even the SE1A are no less directional (or more like the fish eye lens on a motel door) than comparable LDC mics.
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Not really true, Bobbsy. The off-axis response of large and small diaphragm mics is quite different.
 
Richard Monroe said:
Not really true, Bobbsy. The off-axis response of large and small diaphragm mics is quite different.
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Different mics have different off axis responses but it's certainly not true to say that SDCs always have more off axis pickup than LDCs. Indeed, though any generalisation is unwise, SDCs generally have LESS off axis pick up.

Just as an example, here's the polar pattern for an SE2200A LDC:

SE2200A.jpg

And here is an SE1A pencil mic:

1A.jpg

As you can see, the SDC is actually more directional (i.e. less off axis pickup) than the LDC from the same company.

I'm sure I could find examples that go the other way if I tried--but, in my experience at least, off axis rejection is often better, not worse, on SDCs.

(FYI, I only chose the SE as an example because I happen to have some of both--and knew I could get polar patterns in the same format for both).
 
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