Aardvark Pre's VS. RNP, Dmp3, Grace

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Booda

Booda

Master of the Obvious
Is there anyone who has a Aardvark Q10 or 24/96, that has A/B'd the Aark Pre's to some of the Budget priced and beyond Pre's?

I've been looking into this for a few months and haven't come up with too much. I'm trying to find out where they sit in the mix ;)

I'm looking at getting a RNC and maybe a Budget Pre. After checking out many, I've narrowed it down to the DMP3 or RNP. But if my Aarks are already comparable to these (like they are to each other) then I'd save my money and get either a Grace or Sytek, or maybe wait for the TOFT and see how they rate.

Any experiences?
Thanks,
B.
 
The Aardvark pres are pretty comparable to the DMP3.....pretty even and similar sounding to me.......

i think the RNP would be a step up.....
 
Hi.

I have an Aardvark DP 2496 and I just picked up a Studio Projects VTB-1 pre-amp and the RNC 1773 compressor. I picked up the VTB-1 to help warm up vocal and electric bass tracks when recording, ...especially bass tracks. The VTB-1 has the whole "tube-thing" going for it, and I'm hoping it helps get a warmer bass tone than the Aardvark pre's have done so far.

One thing that I've noticed with the RNC, is that the ins/outs are all *un-balanced*.

Here is a direct quote off the RNC QuickStart v0.50 guide:
"Hooking up the RNC to balanced lines with TRS 1/4" plugs will not work! If the equipment you are connecting the RNC to is balanced, you must first unbalance it and only connect into the RNC with TS 1/4" plugs!"

The manual that came with my Aardvark DP 2496 saya that it has inputs that will accept either balanced (+4dBu) *or* unbalanced (-10dBu) signals. Be careful!!!

I'm actually home "sick" today from work to try out these 2 peices of new gear. So I'll keep you posted!

-Mr. Moon

War13 at: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/mrmoonmusic.htm
 
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Geeeeezzzzzz!!!!!!!

It has only been an hour or so since I set up my RNC 1773 and VTB-1, but MAN!!!!!! WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! Especially on the bass!!! :)

The pre's on the DP 2496 are nice, but the VTB-1 (with and without the RNC in the circuit) just kicks butt over 'em, at least for my taste! The bass has a fuller, warmer, more "there" sound with the VTB-1 than with the 2496's pre's. ...And when you crank the tube-level up, watch out! Driven to the max!

I did side-by-side tests, where I set the levels on each pre so they would hit the same level on the digital input meter in the Aardvark control panel when the "E" string was gently plucked with my thumb. ...And man...., geeeeezzzz...., I'm speachless. The VTB-1 actually made it so much better sounding, that I wrote a nice new bass line that I'll have to write a song around.

I'll check out the vocals later, I'm having too much fun with the bass!!!

Long story short: This is one of those times when I have laid out a bunch of cash on this kind of gear, and I really feel like I've gotten my money's worth! The difference can asily be heard!

-Mr. Moon
 
i also got a VTB1 and it sounds much better than the Q10 pres.

but, the Q10 pres are very usable...i use them all the time..nice and clean...

the only annoying thing about them is how the software gain meters work...you go from like 15, and then it takes a jump to 32. i can't tell you how many times i've though "i need 28"...or whatever.

I also have a soundcraft M12 and it's a small step above the Aardvark pres...

as far as the RNC...i can just never seem to use mine right. guess i'm an idiot..

mrmoon...was that the first compressor you've had or are you experienced with them?

rnc always did weird things to my bass signal - which it actually talks about on the FMR site.

-wes
 
wes480 said:
as far as the RNC...i can just never seem to use mine right. guess i'm an idiot..

mrmoon...was that the first compressor you've had or are you experienced with them?

rnc always did weird things to my bass signal - which it actually talks about on the FMR site.

-wes
Click to expand...

Hi Wes,

I have no "real" hands-on experience with hardware compressors. Well, actually, I owned an Alesis 3630 for a couple of years ...and that thing never really did work correctly. Most compression I use is software-based in Sonar 2.2.

I'm learning how to work with the RNC compressor now, ...all compressors and/or compression in general, actually. Trying to do a lot of reading and experimenting... any suggestions, hints, tricks? What does FMR say that the RNC does to a bass signal?

All I know is that for me, the pre's on the VTB-1 sound much fuller and warmer for bass. We'll see how it does with vocals later. I'm also not rying to dis the Aardvark pre's, because they've worked fine for me up until this point, but for me they just were not producing the bass sound I was after...

Hey! I just found that bass-reference at the FMR site that you were talking about:

"Why does the RNC distort my bass guitar?
At the risk of sounding too esoteric and philosophical, there are many universal laws that are, many times, inconvenient (like, say, gravity). Well, there's a mutual (and universal) exclusivity between low frequency fidelity and fast compressor release times. Stated another way: the faster a compressor's release time, the more distorted the lower frequencies will be. "Okay, okay!", you say, "I know that! But why don't I have similar problems with my other compressors?" Simply put, the RNC's normal mode release times are shorter than many compressors (some of the fastest that we've seen). This means that the RNC will induce low frequency distortion more frequently than your other compressors. "Why didn't you make the RNC so it wouldn't distort my bass notes?" Because then we'd limit (no pun intended) your creative choices for other sound sources where a really fast release time would sound really gonzo...like on kick or snare drums. Try compressing a snare drum track with the RNC set for really fast attack and release times. You'll here drum resonances that you've never heard before that can be creatively used to add spice to your mixes!

"How do I avoid or reduce the low frequency distortion?" This one's easy: increase the release time until the distortion goes away. (Doing my best Groucho Marx impression: "Does it distort when you do that? Well don't do that!")"

I have not noticed any bass distortion, but I started out with the default settings they suggested, and I haven't put it through it's paces ...yet!


-Mr. Moon

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/mrmoonmusic.htm
 
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Thanks for the replys.
Mr.Moon, I don't have much time right now so I'll have more to say later... but I'm very interested in your findings. I've also wondered how the Aarks Compression rates w/ the RNC. I've been planning on using the RNC for my Overheads and keep using the Aarks Comp. for Kick and snare. (But since it's so fast, I may do it the other way around) I use it sparingly and it seems to be ok, but again, I've not heard others who have AB'd the Compression either.

After reading the threads that have the sound clips of the RNP,VTB-1, & DMP3... Many people mistook the DMP3 for the RNP & no one cared much for the VTB-1. I thought My Aark Pre's might be somewhat in the ball park of all 3... but it almost seems like all 3 might be a step up...

Gidge, I'm thinking that if the VTB-1 is producing such a fuller sound, then the DMP3 must too... just going by those sound clips I heard. Especialy the Bass clips... the DMP3 was clearly the better one.

Thanks all,
B.
 
Booda,

Hi. I have not used the Aardvark's compressor at all. I have tried the reverb, but because it has such a different sound to it, I have only used it when recording vocals so the vocalist has some effect in his ear while recording. So, I have no comparison to offer you for that aspect...

From the reviews I have read, I would agree that most find the VTB-1 not a great bass pre amp, but that it excels for vocals, especially considering the price. While I haven't tried it extensively on vocals yet (later this weekend), I find that it does thinken and warm up my bass tone, much more so than the Aark's pre's (my opinion). I find that when I turn up the tube-mix, the bass really sweetens up and sounds great. Again, just my opinion here...

I was looking at the RNP, but sadly, it's way out of my price range. I'm sure it's a great unit, but too much $ for me at this point.

I considered the DMP3, but again, it was WAY over my initial budget amount of $150.00. I also was looking for a tube pre, and I don't believe that the DMP3 offers this, as I desire that overdriven-warmth kind of tone that tubes deliver. The VTB-1 does this...

Oops, ...have to get back to the new toys.., um.., I mean "gear!"

-Mr. Moon
 
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"Why didn't you make the RNC so it wouldn't distort my bass notes?" Because then we'd limit (no pun intended) your creative choices for other sound sources where a really fast release time would sound really gonzo...like on kick . . .
Click to expand...

A little bit off topic, but does anyone else see anything wrong with this logic (scratches head) ? ? ? What did he just say about lower frequencies needing longer release times? Or do you think he's just talking about a snappier jazz-style kick? :D
 
Original Quote from FMR's web site:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Why didn't you make the RNC so it wouldn't distort my bass notes?" Because then we'd limit (no pun intended) your creative choices for other sound sources where a really fast release time would sound really gonzo...like on kick . . .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


chessrock said:
A little bit off topic, but does anyone else see anything wrong with this logic (scratches head) ? ? ? What did he just say about lower frequencies needing longer release times? Or do you think he's just talking about a snappier jazz-style kick? :D
Click to expand...

Just for the record: This was a direct quote off the FMR web site, under the FAQ section. So, I am not the "he" who just said anything about anything... It was "them" at FMR, not Mr. Moon

;)

Whew..., that was close!

-Mr. Moon
 
MR.Moon, I'll bet your having a great day today! sounds like fun.
Yeah I like the idea of the Tube knob. I wouldn't record Bass straight into the Aark either, I use a Ampeg Pre, gets great tones, & I Mic.
You may know this but the Reverb can not be recorded (live) and is just used for monitoring. The Comp & EQ can. You should at least give em a try, seeings how you have it. You just may like it, or find out what it is you like more of the RNC. ?. (I actually like the reverb).
For some reason I thought the VTB1 and the DMP3 were about the same price.?. I'll have to check that again.
Take Care,
B.
 
Hi Booda,

The VTB-1 and DMP3 are within about $50.00 of each other (street price), but the VTB-1 had the "tube" thing going for it and I have always enjoyed the "warmth" ond overdrive that tubes provide. As a matter of fact, several years ago when I was still doing the "professional" music thing, I sold *all* my solid-state rack mounted amps and effects used for live performances, and traded them all in for a Peavey 5150 tube amp *without* reverb. I ran *no* effects whatsoever live, except for a cry-baby wah pedal and an old BOSS delay. So much simpler and sounded SOOOOOOOOOO much better to me. I wish I still had that amp...... :(

Anywho, so I went with the VTB-1 because it has a tube and I like tubes, ...might sound dumb, but I've heard worse explanations for things! Additionally, I went $50.00 over-over-budget just to get the VTB-1, if I went $100.00 over-over-budget, I wouldn't be able to hide the purchase from my wife... (ha, joke). (By "over-over-budget" I meant that I only really set out to spend $75.00, and then $100.00, and finally settled at $150.00.)

That is good info on the Aard's EQ and compressor... I just figured they worked like the reverb. Do they work when recording at 96kHz? I just checked the manual, and it says "no," the DSP effects do NOT work when recording at 96kHz, good 'nuff reason to keep the compressor for me!

Anyways..., back to the toys.

...Speaking of which, know of any worthwhile inexpensive 5-string basses out there? (See my post under "Guitars and Basses")


-Mr. Moon
 
Mr. Moon-

woah woah...Aark Compression?

Am I to believe that this is something in the Aark Manager mixer window....that occurs before the A/D conversion...that would at least aide in peak limiting??

That would save my *life*....I have certainly never read anything about it.....and what's this reverb as well.

Please...how do I access these features? (I use a Q10 with the latest drivers, 7.04 i believe)

-wes
 
I bought my Q10 like, the day they were released...the manual that came with mine was just printed up/copied computer paper...

maybe I missed out on something explanation wise...w/the DSP Effects.

Even having the reverb for monitoring...is a very cool thing. Now...how do I get to them...(i'm not at home at the moment...will def. be checking that out later)
 
Yo..

I have the DP 2496, which has these effects in the Aardvark control panel. I just looked at the downloadable Q10 manual and Q10 product info at the Aardvark web site, and I'm sorry to say that it looks like the Q10 does *not* have the DSP effects.

Sorry. If I'm wrong, I hope someone will correct me....

-Mr. Moon
 
interesting, always thought the 2496 was the "little brother" of the Q10.

maybe i will call them later.
 
Wes, I've had my Aark since it first came out about 3 years ago & It's true... the Direct Pro 24/96 has on board DSP effects and the Q10 does not. It's quite a bummer. I've recently been planning on getting more INs and since I like my Aark so much, figured I'd just get the Q10. But then I too recently found out the effects are not there. The Q10 does have better monitoring though. With the 2 volume knobs on the front panel. I'm constantly turning on and off my monitors and up and down the level in the C-panel. Things could be worse I guess... I could break out my old Fostex 4 track ;)

The effects are good... The reverb is great for monitoring and you can get it on the track by running the track back through the Aark and recording it a second time.

The Compression to me is good and transparent when used just a touch. To me Compression is a hard beast to handle anyway... so I'm not sure how it rates with a unit like RNC. You can even get that touch of overdriven vocal sound if you want.

The EQ is handy as well... I borrowed my friends C-1 to see what the Hype was all about and got a EQ setting that got my Oktava 012 to lay a track that was very comparable to the C1.
Personally not a big fan of the C1 but it is good. At first thought it was pretty nice but after a while the upper presence gets annoying and sticks out like a sore thumb.

Anyway... I think its crazy the Q10 doesn't have the Effects, so I'm debating on getting another DP 24/96 or a LX6 w/ some Pre's. Actually after writting all this It's starting to sound good to me to have 4 Aark Pre's, a RNP and a DPM3 (or a 2ch. Tube Pre) that wouldn't be too bad. 3 Flavors Hmmmm... I better go get to work.

Take Care,
B.
 
Booda,

I was chuckling to myself how you just rationalized yourself into another purchase...

...Sounds just like ME!!! :)

LOL

-Mr. Moon
 
Mr. Moon said:
Just for the record: This was a direct quote off the FMR web site, under the FAQ section. So, I am not the "he" who just said anything about anything... It was "them" at FMR, not Mr. Moon
Click to expand...

:D lol. Of course. The "he" I was refering to was Mark McQuilkin.
 
It is funny... no, no... it's "Sad but Truewrrrrrrrah" (like Hetfield)

I just got home from work and been thinking more about it and still think thats a good waY to expand a bit. I think I'm going to forget about the RNC for a while and keep using the Aardvark Comp. Pick up a LX6 in the future for cheap and probably be more focused on Pre's right now.

I wish more people would chime in on the Aark Pre and Comp with their thoughts. There has to be more Users out there w/ some opinions.

B.
 
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