A tune from my band.....

[NL5]

good track. Very counting crows...

I think the drums have come up a bit. Strictly talking about the mix...

The drums seem to loose umf in places where the song feels like it's climbing. Possibly more in the areas of timing, compression and eq. The overheads and toms seem to bring out that loss.

Perhaps "bigger" eq and compression (less boxy) on the toms and harder compression on the overheads to pull them back in the mix...creating a less small room feel.

The snare could use more snap, but I think it's a matter of taste. A little more focused.

Great tones.

Thanks for the listen!

I think I'm going to have to re-think the way I record songs. It kind of seems that things I thought I was over-doing a bit, aren't really translating to the real world. I had myself convinced that I need to start micing OH's a lot closer to the kit to get rid of some of the room sound. I record in a 1000sq ft very "live" sounding room. I thought they sounded too open - not like they came from a small room at all. I just did a session yesterday, and cut the OH height in half, and that cut the room sound by even more than half. Was thinking that was better.

I dunno........

 

[LeeRosario]

Thanks for the listen!

I think I'm going to have to re-think the way I record songs. It kind of seems that things I thought I was over-doing a bit, aren't really translating to the real world. I had myself convinced that I need to start micing OH's a lot closer to the kit to get rid of some of the room sound. I record in a 1000sq ft very "live" sounding room. I thought they sounded too open - not like they came from a small room at all. I just did a session yesterday, and cut the OH height in half, and that cut the room sound by even more than half. Was thinking that was better.

I dunno........

Don't beat yourself up...I think we all kick our own asses trying to get these great tones.

I envy that you have that room, as I'm a huge fan of recording drums in big places. Hopefully you have high ceilings too. That's a big deal for two reasons, overheads and comb filtering.

With all that space to let the sound dissipate, you shouldn't have incredible issues with the close mics. You get enough time before the sound slaps back and cancels the shit out of everything. Only problem being that some room tones seem to create a bad feel for overheads, which is why you hear about these engineers raving about "holy shit, I found the perfect room to track drums" and end up using it for the next 20 years.

The overheads I find work best with tons of space behind the drummer.

For example, this last project I tracked and mixed, I did the drums in a roughly 30 by 30 garage with about 20 foot ceilings.

I ran out of mic stands for the OH, so I set up the drums right in the middle of the garage door rails. I wrapped the mic cables WAY the f*** up there and let the mics hang. With nice "tight" compression, did the trick.

Its one of those things where it always starts with the overheads. You get those sounding perfect and the rest follows

 

[NL5]

Don't beat yourself up...I think we all kick our own asses trying to get these great tones.

I envy that you have that room, as I'm a huge fan of recording drums in big places. Hopefully you have high ceilings too. That's a big deal for two reasons, overheads and comb filtering.

With all that space to let the sound dissipate, you shouldn't have incredible issues with the close mics. You get enough time before the sound slaps back and cancels the shit out of everything. Only problem being that some room tones seem to create a bad feel for overheads, which is why you hear about these engineers raving about "holy shit, I found the perfect room to track drums" and end up using it for the next 20 years.

The overheads I find work best with tons of space behind the drummer.

For example, this last project I tracked and mixed, I did the drums in a roughly 30 by 30 garage with about 20 foot ceilings.

I ran out of mic stands for the OH, so I set up the drums right in the middle of the garage door rails. I wrapped the mic cables WAY the f*** up there and let the mics hang. With nice "tight" compression, did the trick.

Its one of those things where it always starts with the overheads. You get those sounding perfect and the rest follows

See, that's the weird thing. I have a 32X36 foot room with high vaulted ceilings and almost no parallel surfaces (and the parts that are parallel are in many different spacings). I generally have the OH mics about 6 feet above the snare, and the closest wall to the drummer is about 6 feet away, and that wall is 50% covered with 4" of 703. The next closest wall is a good 12-15 feet away. That's why I can't figure where I get a "small room" sounding drum mix........

 

[LeeRosario]

The drum tuning and playing style of your drummer make a difference. The drum heads in your track sound tuned on the lose end, also the drummer is a little light on the kit.

It's a weird thing. I've heard drums in small rooms that sound bigger than drums tracked in churches. You put chad smith on the kit in a closet, with the sonic booms he makes...I'm pretty sure it'll work out some how.

Maybe something you can try in the mix:

I've been trying the approach of sending my *gated* kick and snare tracks to a heavy and controlled mono compression buss. I work out the settings until I get a good amount of smack out of the kick and snap out of the snare.

I get an in-between for the loudest and softest parts of the song.

This gets me an amazingly focused and dynamic sound in the mix, even if the drummer plays soft at times.

I guess my balance would be this philosophy:

Thick kick, snappy snare, packed and focused toms. Hihat to fill in what the snare gate takes away.

Heavy compression on the OH, slightly pumpy. Bring em up just enough to fill out the kit, but not over take the kick, snare and toms.

 

[NL5]

One last go-round.

Anybody else care to comment/critique?

Thanks!

 

[Chili]

See, that's the weird thing. I have a 32X36 foot room with high vaulted ceilings and almost no parallel surfaces (and the parts that are parallel are in many different spacings). I generally have the OH mics about 6 feet above the snare, and the closest wall to the drummer is about 6 feet away, and that wall is 50% covered with 4" of 703. The next closest wall is a good 12-15 feet away. That's why I can't figure where I get a "small room" sounding drum mix........

Just going through and re-reading the comments. I'm no expert and never mic'd a drum kit before, but.... curious if you are micing the room also. A mic at the far end or maybe a cardioid near the OH's but pointed away from the kit to capture reflections off the far wall. idk, just ideas to get a bigger room sound. It must be nice to have a room like that to track in.

I can't listen again just yet, but maybe later tonight.

 

[CoolCat]

it sounds amazing to me... i don't know what the concerns about? geeez...

maybe i heard the fixed version and the comments don't apply or something?

the piano intro sounds fantastic....like its right there.
the change at 3:30 is cool too..

 

[NL5]

it sounds amazing to me... i don't know what the concerns about? geeez...

maybe i heard the fixed version and the comments don't apply or something?

the piano intro sounds fantastic....like its right there.
the change at 3:30 is cool too..

Thanks man! Only one version - it's already mastered.