a trip to the studio...

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Nilbog

Nilbog

hello
I went to 8 Houses Down studio in Denver colorado (operated by the guys from the gammits for any locals) to observe my friends band get recorded.
It's not a real full blow pro studio - they payed $35 and hour and it's basically a <i>really nice</i> home studio (24 track hard drive).

Anyway, I made a few observations. I'll post them here just because I found these things interesting and I'm wondering if that's how things are usually done.

1. No click track - they played EVERYTHING to a scratch guitar track.

2. They recorded one instrument for all the songs, then went back and recorded another instrument, etc. For example, they recorded 10 songs with nothing but drums, then went back and added all the guitar, etc.

3. The tech was really helpful - for example he would tell you if you messed up and needed to redo something.

4. They did not multiply any guitar tracks. Isnt that kind of a standard thing?

that's all i can remember now...

Anyway, the bands page is here:
http://www.smarterthanyesterday.com/index.html

they should be posting some mp3's soon so you can hear the recording.
 
taking your points in order:

1. No click track - they played EVERYTHING to a scratch guitar track.

Depends on the style of music. Classical, folk, and jazz (except smooth jazz) would almost never use a click track. Neither would many other styles. Other more metronomic styles like hip-hop, techno, disco, etc. would almost always use some sort of click. Everything else, it's up to the artist and/or producer's preference. The key is what is more appropriate to the style: a perfect mechanical feel or a more organic one.

2. They recorded one instrument for all the songs, then went back and recorded another instrument, etc. For example, they recorded 10 songs with nothing but drums, then went back and added all the guitar, etc.

that's usually more of a home studio technique, done because of equipment and/or space limitations. Most often at least the rhythm section records together with a scratch vocal. Otherwise all spontaneous interplay between the musicians is eliminated. Again, in some styles of music interplay is more important than others.



3. The tech was really helpful - for example he would tell you if you messed up and needed to redo something.

yes, that's natural. especially when there is no producer. the engineer becomes the only set of "objective" ears. Most musicians appreciate the feedback, but occasionally some don't. So the engineer has to be sensitive to that and know when to shut up.

4. They did not multiply any guitar tracks. Isnt that kind of a standard thing?

Only in music where getting a "wall-of-guitar"sound is appropriate. You wouldn't find it used much, say, on jazz albums.

Hope that helps...
 
"Anyway, I made a few observations. I'll post them here just because I found these things interesting and I'm wondering if that's how things are usually done.

1. No click track - they played EVERYTHING to a scratch guitar track. "

sometimes thats the thing, but it depends...hope that guitar player had some insanely good rhythm

"2. They recorded one instrument for all the songs, then went back and recorded another instrument, etc. For example, they recorded 10 songs with nothing but drums, then went back and added all the guitar, etc."

sometimes, thats a way, but it depends

"3. The tech was really helpful - for example he would tell you if you messed up and needed to redo something. "

cool!

"4. They did not multiply any guitar tracks. Isnt that kind of a standard thing?"

It depends :)
 
if pipeline and i post the same answers to the same questions at the same time, would that be considered two part harmony?
 
littledog said:
if pipeline and i post the same answers to the same questions at the same time, would that be considered two part harmony?
Click to expand...

No, unison, I believe :)

You'd have to be posting different, but complementary answers for it to be harmony :D
 
1. No click track - they played EVERYTHING to a scratch guitar track.
Click to expand...


That's pretty bizarre. It really is -- what the hell were they thinking? ? ? But I've heard of stranger. Oh well. As long as it worked, I guess (? ?)

2. They recorded one instrument for all the songs, then went back and recorded another instrument, etc. For example, they recorded 10 songs with nothing but drums, then went back and added all the guitar, etc.
Click to expand...


Was that because the band wanted to do it that way, or because the engineer suggested it? If it's the latter, I'm afraid the band may have gotten hosed in to booking more hours than necessary. :D I would never advocate something like that, if I had a say -- it's kind of a vibe-killer. It might be good, though, in the event the artists are either perfectionists or not very well-rehearsed.

3. The tech was really helpful - for example he would tell you if you messed up and needed to redo something.
Click to expand...


Imagine that.

4. They did not multiply any guitar tracks. Isnt that kind of a standard thing?
Click to expand...


Yes and no. If you like that sort of thing, I guess. :D
 
I would think some sort of click track would be an advantage in most any kind of music.. Relying on the guitarist to keep time is a scary situation..
 
they are basically a punk/emo/hardcore band. None of thier songs have any tempo changes or anything - and they had trouble keeping time at a few parts where there are breaks in the music...

It was not their preference to record in that order - thats what the tech said to do. And they laid down drums for 9 tracks, but only had time to record 5 totally. That was three days.
 
how can you create click track in rock bands? most of the time tempo changes and such.

I'm about to record a band next week, i would love to set up tempo make it go by alot faster. But after listening to the band, the verse and chorus are different tempo.
 
i do the bass and guitar and vocals in my group.....

i record with my dummer mostly, live with a scratch guitar and vocal....no click...

we tried the "let's get all the drums on 9 songs, then the bass then the guitars then the vocals" route and it was very exhausting and non-intuitive and the results felt rushed and non-fluid..so we concentrated on doing 3 tunes instead..

but when i do a demo of an idea at home for him to track or jam to later, i'll sometimes record with a fruity loops kick and snare wav file (as a click) becasue i can play rhythm off of the beat...and then give him the tracks with the click wav taken out....

if a set of players are not used to a click it can really mess them up...i think if you absolutely have to use a click then the drummer's meter just plain sucks....but it really depends on the level of signiture changes and dynamics in your music..

the nice thing about using a program like fruity for a click is that i can stretch out the time signiture and fake tempo changes (by spacing out the BPM, then closing them up for a faster change, or vice-versa)..
 
I think a click track depends alot on the abilites of the band, are they on time or are they a Russian Dragon?
Most of the time when tracking a rock band I have then go through all the songs together (except vocals), mic the drums for real and have the other guys go DI using whatever I can to get close to what they are used to. Drums get printed and everything else gets printed to a scratch track. That way I obtain the timing oddities of the drummer and the other guys have self cueing from the scratch. But I always try different things if what I normally do doesn't work for some reason. If you use a click, try using a drum machine and use a sample that can be buried easier if it bleeds. I can see hoew recording engineers are like football coaches, you need several game plans because the players don't all respond or think the same way.
Nothing is ever unusual:D

SoMm
 
scottboyher said:
I would think some sort of click track would be an advantage in most any kind of music...
Click to expand...

ANY kind of music?

("we play BOTH kinds of music: country AND western...")

too bad about they let all that shitty music be made before 1970 without click tracks.
 
littledog said:

too bad about they let all that shitty music be made before 1970 without click tracks.
Click to expand...

The click track was used in recording way before 1970.Carl Stalling invented it in the 20's.Check out his Bio located here.
 
It was, but it wasn't ubiquitous (at least in non-soundtrack applications) until disco in the 1970's.

But thanks for the cool link.
 
If your like me and you hear a song that is obviously recorded with out a click, and the band is off, or there is a fill just barely out of time, it will forever be a recorded mistake. Even the great names in drumming use click tracks. And with all these young musicians making music, its doubtful most have "mastered timing".

Id say a click track would be easy "timing insurance". Just my 2 cintavos.

D
 
A punk/harcore type of band? I always record bands all at once, because of the feel.

I can record 50 tracks simultainiously, two 24 track analog machines synced and Nuendo or whatever synced to the machines.

As far as I know there's no computer who can record that many tracks at once.

Bands should play in the studio like they are used to do.
 
On the click track, Rarely do I have bands use one. Only count ins at the top or anywhere there's a pause or such things as that.
On tracking the band, I track everyone at the same time, including vocals. If it's a magical performance then we captured it. If not, we at least got some of the tune and we can drop back and punt on anyone that clamed.
On critiquing the bands performance, I just try to read the bands demeanor. If their receptive to it I'll act as a "producer" (I use this term VERY loosly). I'll always let them know if they made a clam if they didn't notice.
As far as adding instruments, doubling or whatever, that is dictated by the band or style of music.
 
Two things. One is my input is based on my own theory in my head and I respectivly submit to anyone who has done it and is in the industry.

2nd, to Mike- What a cool name to have in respects to recording. It reminds me of when I was into hot rodding and I knew a guy named Allen (as in wrench). BTW, my middle name is Richard. Go figure :cool:
 
click tracks click tracks click tracks!

when ive recorded my band, ive only gotten the drummer to use them, and thats only because i know after a rehearsal or whatever he'll go home and use a click track to go through things again and again to get them as solid sounding as possible. he's convinced hes much more 'solid' now ... but then again, when i went to put the guitar tracks onto a song, i couldnt cope with the click at All... i found it almost too limiting, if thats the right word :p... drummers are there to keep time, guitarists are there to play high screechy solos and thick distorted chords... the drummer gets the click track, i get the "extra distortion" pedal and number "11" on the amp :p

Andy
 
hardcore punk emo? definatly record the band together. what the r.e. may lose in control of the sound the band will gain in feel... click track? maybe if it was celine dion's back up band or some crap that no-one listens to, if the bpm is a touch slower/faster than the band is feeling at that point in time you'll get a gutless take... inexactitudes are charachter
 
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