A Tale of 3 AKGs, a C1 and a U-87.

  • Thread starter Thread starter ausrock
  • Start date Start date
ausrock

ausrock

Well-known member
Last night I had the opportunity to compare the following mics; AKG414 B-TL, AKG C1000, AKG C3000, Studio Projects C1 and a Neumann U-87.
For the record we set the 5 mics up in a close cluster, ran each one through my Soundcraft Studio console, (EQ was flat on all channels) and through to seperate tracks on my Fostex D160 H/d recorder. Faders were at 0. The first run was done with gains set to maximise the signal from each mic, then 2 more recordings with all gains set the same to compare the signal strength of each mic.
We decided to record acoustic guitar, (newly strung) in preference to voice, and the outcome...........................

AKG414 B-TL...... (Yes I know it is supposedly baised to vocals) Second lowest signal strength, very "muddy" lacking top-end definition. Imagine having cotton wool stuck in your ears. The guy that owns it was shattered.
AKGC1000...... (not a large diaphragm condenser) Lowest signal strength, clear defined sound but lacking body compared to the following 3 mics.
AKGC3000......Third highest or lowest (OK it was in the middle) signal strength, clear defined sound across the tonal range, somewhat transparent or glassy quality. Definitely not unpleasant.
Studio Projects C1......Signal strength was almost identical to the U-87, clear defined sound across the tonal range, definitely true to the original acoustic sound.
Neumann U-87......Signal strength, "as above". Again a clear defined sound, but with more bottom end or "body" not heard naturally from the guitar. Unpleasant?.....NO. Unnatural?......YES.

Am I surprised at the results?........definitely, even though I had read the glowing reviews if the C1 and the comparisons made by some people of high repute to the U-87, and considering I bought the C1 on the basis of these reviews, I really expected the U-87 to stand head and shoulders above the rest. Maybe in other circumstances with certain instruments or vocalists it may, but tonight, with an acoustic guitar, this U-87 was eclipsed by the C1.
And the guy that owns the AKGs and the U-87 will be buying 2 C1s as soon as he can get the money together. Enough said!

For now the skeptic in me has been quieted.

Peace..........ChrisO
:cool:
 
Chris,

WOW :D I don't know wether to say thank you, congradulations on your new killer mic...or I told you so. LOL

Now if only we can get all the other skeptics to try the mic. With you being in RODE's backyard, I guess this will stir up some dirt.
 
Where did you get that C1???

Ausrock,
Where did you get the C1??? I may be coming across the Tasman later this year, and while I have my heart set on some MXL603's (will probably order from US), the C1 may tempt me as well... And how much $? None available in NZ that I can find of either mic...

Thanks,
Steve
 
Alan,
I am even more seriously looking into setting up as a reseller based on last nights experience. I just have to give consideration to whether it is feasible with the "new" tax system here. A lot of small businesses are finding a Goods and Services tax system to be almost overwhelming. Anyways, I will keep both Mick and yourself posted.


Steve,
If possible, email me telling where you expect to be staying here in Aust. and approx when and I will let you know current pricing and nearest dealer to your expected destination.

email; cc25@ozemail.com.au

Peace...........ChrisO :cool:
 
Steve,

We do have a distributor in NZ. It is Oceania Audio in Auckland. Email nigelrus@oceania-audio.co.nz

Phone is +64 98465533 Ask for Nigel, but you can buy them where ever you choose to.

Chris,

Great report! How about you getting it to some of the other groups.
 
Thanks

Thanks guys,
Looks like I can get it here, Chris, but thanks for the offer of help.
Thanks for the info Alan.
Steve
 
a little more about the technique please

A few questions about your methodology. Since you were recording an acoustic guitar, and these mics are all fairly large, I have a hard time imagining that they were all in a position to capture the same sort of tonality, especially since a recorded acoustic guitar sounds radically different depending on where you place a mic, even varying the mic position by an inch. i'd be interested to hear your results if you recorded with each mic separately placed in the same spot (i.e. on the same stand in a marked spot) and compared those sounds.
 
It probubly wont change the results much as long as the mics were in the same area of the room and the distace from the pickup point were the same.

Any way that was typical of the same reviews Ive been reading on it. It is one heck off a mic.
 
Why is it???

Why is it, that every time someone posts a good report about this mic, that the naysayers try and figure out some way that the comparison results are somehow a fluke?

Could it be?

Could it be that all the good things that are being said about it, from homerecordist to professionals are true???

God forbid.
 
Well I didnt realize that It was done simutanously. besides I also would have insisted on a vocal comparison as well.

By the way C7sus I had chinese for lunch in your honor.:D
 
I know this won't hold any water because it is coming from me, but I don't care what test you do, or how you do it, one of you out there will crush it. If the U87 had been the winner, all of you would be jumping up and down going...right on, yeah, the C1 sucked.

Tests are tests, they either come out good, or they come out bad. The C1 is a fraction of the cost of the mics that were tested, so give the darn C1 a break. I don't know how many more times I have to say it.

The C1 is a good mic for a list price of $299.99, and it will provide a good sound well worth the paid street price to the user who will be using it? If every user who has listened to it, and obviously thousands have, because we have sold some 3500 units already, and they all say the mic is equal to this or that, or it sounds great. So why can't you all accept that the C1 is a killer mic without saying, well move it an inch here, or the reviewer must have wax in their ears. If you want proof, buy it from a place that has a return policy. Listen to it for yourself, then you have the right to comment on the mic.

Show me one post, or review anywhere that said the C1 is a bad mic. other than those who trash it without listening to it. Even if it is just an average mic, so what...THE MIC IS $299.99! There is another heated thread on the Full Compass forums with more users proclaiming the C1 compares to a high end mic. If we are all over the place being compared to high end mics, one would think you all would just go out and buy the stupid thing and save a ton of money in the process.

I will dread when the VT-1 mic pre comes out, because the beta tester's are already comparing it to some high end units...maybe I should just kill the VT-1 project and let you all buy what's out there and get what you pay for.

I said this before, and I will say it again. My goal was to provide world class products without raping the end users. I take very little profit because this is not about the money for me. I can retire today with no worries. I am 50 years old, and will retire in 5 years anyway, and my son will take over the business, so this is my last contribution to this industry. None of you know me or my motives for this line.

For the last 25 years, my rep firm AMH Sales in Southern California has been representing lines like Sony, AKG, Lexicon, DBX, Waveframe, Digidesign, and many others. Do any of you think that I am just some non technical schmoe of the street and decided to import mics.

I started PMI Audio Group over six years ago with Joemeek. I built that line up and it is a major contender to any unit on the market, regardless of what anyone thinks of Joemeek. I do all the repairs myself and 90% of the product models are my idea, not Englands!

I was touring with bands like Yes and J. Giels in 1971 as the opening act. We had two albums out on Atlantic Records and had some regional success, so I have been there folks. I have history and knowledge, so I have earned my due respect.

Sorry for the rant, but give it a rest guys. Just let the C1, C3, and T3 be what they are. They are good mics at a great price. Let it be just that. :)
 
I think that there is a dislike for Alan on this board not the mic.

There is now way you can even compare those mic. It's like a neve and a mackie. I just think it's a hyped up mic like most of the home recording gear is in today's flooded market. I can go into Guitar satan and see a dozen new mics from some companys I never have heard of and they all sound around them same IMHO.

Then cyber people claim that they sound like (insert pro studio mic here) to people who haven't even heard what the "pro" mic even sounds like. None of these mic have proved themselfs as of yet. Neumann, Shure, AKG Etc have proven themself through the test of time. Wait a year and see how's around still.
 
Wallycleaver


Its not about liking me, I could care less about that, because you don't know me. I think the people on these groups would rather have a direct up front guy like me so you don't have to hear bull#*%& slung around. I tell it like it is, so again, you base your claims on my defense of people saying bad things about the mics who have no clue and have never used them...just like you.

You are exactly just like the kind of people I am talking about. You give an opinion on something you have absolutely no idea about. At least those that have made claims on the mics "have" the mics.

At least Chris did a test and stood behind what he heard. If it came out the other way, do you think I would be ranting...no, I would say, wow, its an honor being placed in the same league as the Neumann.

When you try the mic, and because of this post, you probably never will, then come back and tell me its just a hyped up mic, then I will believe your opinion. Or better yet, put up your credentials on this site so everyone can see what you have done in this industry to back up your claims. If you are someone big hiding behind the Beaver Cleaver brother thing, then call me, and I will let you try the mic. If not, your opinion is another one based on ignorance, or is that Bliss. LOL

Give me a break :)
 
Certified sound engineer by the State of Colorado
Worker with:
Steve Avidis who has worked with Air Supply, n'sync and many more
Steve and John: Owners of FTM studio in Lakewood Colorado who have work with Bette Midler, Tony Bennet unplugged.

Should be Pro Tools certified (by Avid) next spring, if all goes well.

Took all of the required buisness classes to get a degree in Markerting (I need some electives and other shite to get a degree)


Oh yeah, and I'm 20

I don't plan on getting you mic at all.
 
I think we all have the right to be skeptical of claims made about new products.
It is only natural to question the exact methodology of the testing when a very unexpected result is expressed, especially in the realm of *opinion*.

Three things that apply here that might help keep it rational:

1. Many people are impressed by whatever is the loudest brightest mike. Note that that "rule" held true in this test, with the two hottest mikes scoring highest, and the lowest output, least bright mike scoring lowest. Between the "comparable" U87 and C1, the brighter C-1 was chosen as "eclipsing" the U87. So you have to wonder ...? I HAVE heard the three lower ranked mikes, and they all sounded far too unnaturally bright to me...so again, I wonder.

2. Even with #1 in mind, though, there are a LOT of good reviews of the C-1 stacking up, and I haven't seen any bad ones ! The 27dBA noise floor on the specs does worry me though. Whether it really sounds like a U87 or not is probably immaterial. It is probably a good mike and a good bargain.

3. If a mike is truly good, it will stand up over time to all the questions and doubts, so one shouldn't be too defensive of it. In fact, being overly defensive just tends to reveal additional motives. If you really have a great sounding mike, and some other moron says he doubts it...then it is his loss !

If I need a new mike, i would probably give the C-1 a listen. It couldn't hurt. (unless it is too bright !) :)

Peace,
Rick
 
Wally,

Well I am glad you have some credentials, I can give you kudos for that, but I figured you were young, because you know it all. My son is older than you and he thinks he knows it all too. Did you just get out of recording school?

You will change with age and experience...I hope. As for not getting the mics, that is your loss. Your letting your own ego get in the way of reality, but that's ok, we all step in kaka when we are young.

I am glad Shane Decker and Jamie Tate, Grammy winners don't think like you. They are using the Studio Projects on the new Dixie Chicks album for Sony Music, but obviously with your experience, you know something they don't. Good luck to you.



C7sus,

I think you and I have gone around and have finally found a common ground, which is good. We were just like this young whippersnapper Cleaver, but at least you finally did conceive that the mics could sound good, unlike Mr. Cleaver.

You have your reasons for not buying them, although if I gave it to you for free, I think you would keep it, so I understand your reasoning, but I still think your too far left about the issue, while trying to be pc to the right (my opinion and no disrespect), but we can have fun with that issue. In either case I do believe you’re serious about gear, and want to learn more, and to that issue, I am happy to help.

My statement was not to discredit you regarding the placement of the mics; my point is, no matter how you test them, there would always be a caveat to either discredit the test, or the mics by someone who has not used them, and I know you have been following this C1 issue, so you know that every credible reviewer, every credible end user, or test that has been done has been trashed.

For the record, I did not say mic placement did not matter. I think it does, but I do not know how it was done, and which mic was the best placement. This was just a general test, and my comments were about tests, so I think you read me wrong.

It was not an attack on you; I hope you and I are done with that. Having fun with the issues is one thing, but understand if you were in my position and knew what I know about the mic after being in some of the best studios in the country, I think you would feel the same way about those who offer opinions based on what they think, rather than what they know, and I still don't offer my opinions on the mics or report on many other tests in the big studio’s because I will get trashed, I just defend them from the bashers that don't use them.

I am willing to accept any factual opinion, good or bad on the mic, as long as it is fact. In addition, I think any test that is done, exacting, or not is still a good indication to what you end up testing. In this case it may only be about the mics proximity effect based on a group of mics in a cluster. If this is all this particular test shows, well then fine. Someone who was much like the other opinions until he finally decided to try the mic reported the facts, and now he is converted. Perhaps he can do the test again one mic at a time...How about it Chris?

As for the TwinQ, we are shipping, but you know they have Chinese parts inside them, just like your 6Q. LOL :D

In either case, I am getting to like you C7sus, but the sweetheart thing is moving too fast for me, I am still a prude! :)
 
Alan,
Why do you have to bash me to prove that your mic are good?
~Chris
 
Wally....you kinda asked for it.


Hey Alan,
Do you have a distributer in the Houston area yet??
 
This is ridiculous. Alan, you jump up and start waving your flag the second I and c7sus question the methodology of the test. Look, I didn't say a goddam thing about the mic being a bad mic, and I'm sure it can f*ing walk on water, judging from the comments on this board. All I said was you cannot take the 5 sound descriptions of 5 mics recording the same source--especially when it is acoustic guitar-- at the same time, when they are obviosuly in different positions, and say that those results say a goddam thing, because they don't. If you've EVER recorded acoustic guitar, you know that placement is absolutelyCRITICAL, and even moving a centimeter in any direction parallel to the guitar body WILL change the sound of the recording. A boomy recording could be the result of being closer to the soundhole, whereas a nice crispy sound might be a result of being closer to the neck. There is no better way to turn off prospective customers than by ranting and raving about how unfair everyone is, and how your product is like the Ginsu of microphones. If we want a more scientific test, dammit, we should be able to ask for it.

I would suggest that maybe you refrain from posting on topics about your mic, and find something else to lend your expertise about, because I don't have time to wade through your massive posts.

All I want to know is how the mic sounds when recorded in the same position as all the other mics in relation to the acoustic guitar. Not an unreasonable request.
 
alanhyatt said:


You have your reasons for not buying them, although if I gave it to you for free, I think you would keep it, so I understand your reasoning, but I still think your too far left about the issue, while trying to be pc to the right (my opinion and no disrespect), but we can have fun with that issue.

THE THIRD LONGEST SENTENCE IN HOME REC. BBS HISTORY

My statement was not to discredit you regarding the placement of the mics; my point is, no matter how you test them, there would always be a caveat to either discredit the test, or the mics by someone who has not used them, and I know you have been following this C1 issue, so you know that every credible reviewer, every credible end user, or test that has been done has been trashed.

THE SECOND LONGEST SENTENCE IN HOME REC. BBS HISTORY

It was not an attack on you; I hope you and I are done with that. Having fun with the issues is one thing, but understand if you were in my position and knew what I know about the mic after being in some of the best studios in the country, I think you would feel the same way about those who offer opinions based on what they think, rather than what they know, and I still don't offer my opinions on the mics or report on many other tests in the big studio’s because I will get trashed, I just defend them from the bashers that don't use them.

THE LONGEST SENTENCE IN HOME REC. BBS HISTORY

Click to expand...

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top