A sad engineering story, any words of encouragement welcomed.

  • Thread starter Thread starter shortyc
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Exactly. How many people here have suffered-I mean truly suffered for their art?

I remember sleeping in a road case back stage while the opening bands were playing, no food, having to miss family during major holidays, missing my brother's wedding, no money, no permanent address-all to do this crazy thing called music.

And, you know what? I'm not having a mid-life crisis because I spent my teens, twenties and early thirties living out my dream.
 
You guys have what is called the "I'm a chump" mentality. :D Cloneboy, I'll bet you anything that you could have charged at least a modest fee for any of these otherwise free handouts you gave out. And you may have even gotten "farther" a lot faster, although I doubt any of us here are exactly household names at this point.

When all is said and done, the guy who doesn't value his work enough to charge a reasonable fee for his time will not be valued by others, by and large. People will not think of you as a legitimate professional. They'll think of you as "that guy who does free work." And no, they won't refer you to other people with serious projects. They'll just refer you to other people who are broke (or cheap and opportunistic, like them).

The recording profession just continues to amaze me. I've never seen a line of work that is so eager and happy to be stepped on. With the exception of a few open mic nights, even musicians generally get paid when they gig out. Shit, even the guys at the subway stations get a little change thrown in their hat. And these are supposed to be the "starving artists." When was the last time you walked in to work and told your boss: "Don't bother paying me this week" ? Or when was the last time you went to pick up your check and said: "Nah, You keep it. I'm just happy to get the experience" ?

Now I'm not saying you have to charge $80/hr right off the bat. :D Charge a fee that's in line with what you're worth. And if you want to be busy, then charge a fee that will keep you busy. If you're really good, you can get ahead in life without being taken advantage of . . . and without giving away freebies along the way.

There's nothing wrong with having your cake and eating at least enough of it so you won't starve.
 
chess, i DO kinda have to say that I disagree, at least a LITTLE with all that.

I'm 19 now, and in school for music production/electrical engineering double major. Everytime i'm back at home, I'm recording local groups (lots of rap, punk rock/ska/metal are all common too) for $20/hour now. I don't ever want to raise the price until I have to because:
a - its fun
b - I'm already making great extra money beyond my job with $20/hr.
c - I like people to get thier music out, and since most other studios are $35+/hr, this really helps a lot of people out.

BUT, I started out 2 years ago doing everything for free (on my crap gear too, though, haha.). I did a ton of stuff for free, and half of the free stuff I did was also my own, just getting experience. Over time I learned a rediculous amount more about recording and audio in general, upgraded gear, and went to 5 an hour, then 10, then 15, and now i'm happy at 20. AND, I usually end up charging more like 15/hr for most projects because people are so short on cash, and if they got good music I really like for them to finish up and get everything to at least a decent level that we are all satisfied with.

anyway, i think i'm trying to say, do it for free - if you havn't worked on a project in years, consider this fun and ask them to hook you up when they are huge! haha.
 
shackrock said:
BUT, I started out 2 years ago doing everything for free (on my crap gear too, though, haha.). I did a ton of stuff for free, and half of the free stuff I did was also my own, just getting experience. Over time I learned a rediculous amount more about recording and audio in general, upgraded gear, and went to 5 an hour, then 10, then 15, and now i'm happy at 20.
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I started out recording people free of charge, too.

Only I'd ask for money if they actually wanted the final mixes, and I charged the hell out of them if they wanted them to be re-mixed or further tweaked. :D

And I was always up-front with them from the start. Even if they don't decide to buy the mixes, you're providing them with a free practice space, plus you're allowing them to hear what they sound like afterward. There's value in that. There's no risk, and everyone wins.
 
<<Only I'd ask for money if they actually wanted the final mixes>>

BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

actually, i do this too, to an extent. :D i don't record a lot of people, but that's by choice--i could if i had the desire to market myself. but i'm lazy.

bottom line, the clock is always running. it's $20/hour if i know you and have worked with you before, $30/hour if i don't know you (or if i don't like you or your music :D). if you want the final mixes, you pay for all of the time you've spent (both recording and i've spent mixing). if you don't want the final mixes, you don't gotta pay a dime and i'll archive off your stuff to dvd. so, the recording time is "free". the finished product is not.


cheers,
wade
 
To get this thread back ontopic lol.......

This is where real life differs from school. In school, everything is Disneyland (ie, you have everything you need to get it done "right")

But what is right? Remember that some of the most endeared recordings were done on a two track reel ;)

The magic is not always in the equipment, but in the imagination and the abilities of the engineer. You can do this. Quit worrying about what you don't have and what you wish you could use. Go for it. Let them know that with the limited resources though, that it may take longer than two weeks.

1) Take one sing that strikes you as a good one. Each thing you do to an instrument that is common between all of the songs, takes notes of your settings so you can apply the same to that instrument in the other songs (consistancy).

2) When you get that one done, burn it to a CD. Listen to it on the G4, your home stereo, in the car, on a cheap stereo box in Best Buy, etc Figure out the imbalances in the mix based on those. Make corrections and do it again. It usually takes about five or six times to get a mix that you think will work.

3) Make sure you have all of your final adjustments written down. Apply those settings to the tracks in the other songs. Do a preliminary listen and tweak as needed.

4) repeat step 2 (except you have a full CD now). Listen to it from a listener's standpoint - not an engineer who worked his butt off on it and is critical of himself.
If, as a listener, you find yourself grooving to the songs, then you have achieved a good mix.

5) Deliver it to the band. From your first post, I would assume these guys are in demo stage and these aren't finals for an upcoming major release. Otherwise, they would have all of the pre-production and production avenues taken care of.
See what the band thinks. If they are very critical on the mix, let them know it was recorded too hot and the tools you had available were too limited to get the results they wanted. Chances are, if all of the tools were available, they would have mastered it themselves.

In the end, do your best, have some fun making a Pinto from a bicycle - that's what engineers do hehehe.
 
mrface2112 said:
if you want the final mixes, you pay for all of the time you've spent (both recording and i've spent mixing). if you don't want the final mixes, you don't gotta pay a dime and i'll archive off your stuff to dvd. so, the recording time is "free". the finished product is not.
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Kids, listen up and take notes . . . cuz this is how it's done when you're first starting out.

Worse case: They get free practice space and you get free practice engineering.

Best case: They like your work. You get the practice and get paid for it. They get a demo they're happy with at a reasonable rate.
 
Great!

Alot of you had some great encouragement and advice and I truely appreciate that. I will definitely be applying much of what was said.

I know it's impossible to really get this done in 2 weeks but I will do what I can.

It's practice for me and I get to have fun with Pro Tools at home. (not that it's ALWAYS fun...argh)

I explained to them that I can't make any promises and I'm just doing what I can. That was a good point that if I can groove to the music from a listeners perspective that it's not half bad.

If they actually like what I have done in the time considered, who knows...they may just let me keep this equipment or invest in some to give me.

I will post two versions of one of the songs I've attempted in the MP3 forum.
 
Great attitude. Do what you can do. Music is of the arts, and artists do lots of free shit to get where they're going.

Kids, listen up and take notes: It's your life, have fun, and if someone disagrees with you more than once, then I'd say they don't fully believe in what they're disagreeing with you on.

Doing things free doesn't mean you're a doormat. In your case, they're your friends, you believe in them, and this obviously could be an incredible investment in your career. Go for it. Pro Tools is incredible. There are means in Pro Tools by which to take away some of the heat, so use what it's got. Jump to digidesign.com and ask for advice on their forum. There are start-quality pros on there who use Pro Tools and will assure you that you've got pro-quality software.
 
Clit Torres said:
I say mix 8-10 tracks quickly, keep your name out of it, then keep the 002 and G4 ;)
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Haha. I was kind of thinking that.

Id say buy a shitload of coffee and give it your best shot. Crash courses can be excellent ways to get your skills down.
 
They took digi002 back!

Well, before I could know it they took it back because they needed it to record another artist that is doing a quick demo to bring to L.A.

And, I won't be getting it back because another producer claims that he can get it all done it two days.

Atleast I got to do 4 songs. Man!!!
 
shortyc said:
Well, before I could know it they took it back because they needed it to record another artist that is doing a quick demo to bring to L.A.

And, I won't be getting it back because another producer claims that he can get it all done it two days.

Atleast I got to do 4 songs. Man!!!
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Oh yeah, and this is because I will be out of town for Thanksgiving.
 
Welcome to Chumpdom

For all its worth I add my two cents:
If a person or a group of people dump a gig, any kind of gig, on ya cause they expect that you will just do it for free....will get what they pay for at the very least.
How to approach it? Professionally of course. When they push for a dead line, push back and remind them that its free. Take your time and do it right.
Unless you were born a genius your first works will not be your proudest moments. So be careful what you sign your name to.
You would be sorely surpised to find out how long some of your favorite recordings took to make.
Last of all... have fun.
P.S. if space is a problem then you need to rethink your space. In other words let your living room become your sound studio for the time being. It is better to hear well 'specially if your ears are full of mud. Make the investment in yourself. But, dont let the band peeps make you hasty. They havent invested anything in you.
 
Sorry to hear

Too bad...but I stick by my rules. Dont get pushed around. Always produce good sound.
 
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