A return to “produced” records…?

  • Thread starter Thread starter miroslav
  • Start date Start date
I think the idea of "indie music" evolved out of the "alternative" movement when "alternative" actually had a smidgen of meaning AFA a music style in the very early days of its coinage...but yeah, then pretty quickly everyone had to have an "alt" derivative, so it was diluted as any definitive style definition.
So now it doesn't clearly define anything, nor does "indie"....but I DO think for people that still use those terms to describe a music style/genre, they ARE talking about those early days of "alternative" music...the stuff that sprouted out of the Grunge movement.

For a brief time...alt was just grunge...all cleaned and dressed up for a dinner date! ;)
 
I don't know, miro, I remember the use of the term "alternative" being used at least a decade before the grunge movement. Long before Seattle hit us with flannel shirts and $4 cups of coffee, the New York scene centered around CBGBs in New York was pumping out an "alternative" scene of punk and new wave with everybody from the Ramones and the Cramps to Blondie and the Talking Heads. Even then their roots can be traced back to bands like the Velvet Underground, who were considered quite "alternative" in the mid 60s. One could even go back to the 50's, one will find bebop being referred to as the "alternative" movement to "standard" jazz - usually before the "bebop" name was adapted.

I have real problems with classification and categorization of music - let alone bands - by titles, names or even genres. Except for the most obvious generic examples, such classifications are often arbitrary and meaningless, IMHO.

For example, both the Ramones and Blondie were part of the "alternative" movement of the mid-late 70s, yet no one with any kind of ear could call their music even remotely similar. And as far as the grunge "alternative" movement, are we talking the Seattle grunge of Nirvana or the Atlanta grunge of R.E.M.? Not quite the same, are they?

And speaking of the Ramones, we like to call them punk or post-punk "alternative", but weren't they really more 1950s drive-in rock and roll than anything else?

Why is Lyle Lovett categorized as country when his music is far more jazz standard than it is country? Just because he's from Texas and wears cowboy boots? Similar for Clarance Gatemouth Brown, who's music is usually referred to as Texas blues, though it's jazz ensemble roots are far more obvious.

When the Rolling Stones play "Dead Flowers" or "Angie", are they playing rock or country?

Were the Beatles really British Invasion when they went psychedelic? Yet nobody would ever call them a "psychedelic rock band".

Why is Pink Floyd considered one of the gods of classic rock when their time signatures, chord usages and general sound has about as much relation to rock as I do to George Clooney.

And how would one classify Elvis Constllo or Tom Waits? Typically they'd be called post-punk or urban balladeer, respectively; but in reality they grabbed and emulated practically every "genre" on the planet, often within a single album.

And forget bands, how about genres themselves. Can anybody really draw sharp lines between jive, jump blues, and rock and roll?

G.
 
Last edited:
Yes...alternative music was around long before Grunge came along...and some of it may even have been referred to indirectly as "alternative" music by some folks....

...but the "Alt" tag really got hung on a grand scale on one (sorta' single) style of music, post-Grunge...it was applied to the more "dressed up" Pop/Rock that evolved out of the Grunge scene...mostly because those generations wanted to distinguish themselves from the Pop/Rock the came before...even if their "Alt" version wasn't really that much different.

I don't recall the "Alt" tag ever being used prior to that...even if alternative music existed prior to the Grunge period.
 
You know, apart from my playing and recording I present a music show on community radio.

When I talk to bands and ask what style they are if the answer is "Alternative" I feel like saying, "Alternative to what?" Alternative is a word I hate in music description, alternative is like saying Alternative to what the public like to hear.

Cheers

Alan.
 
I guess it's supposed to be an alternative to whatever was on the charts 6 months earlier!!! :D
 
I have real problems with classification and categorization of music - let alone bands - by titles, names or even genres. Except for the most obvious generic examples, such classifications are often arbitrary and meaningless, IMHO.

-snip (for space) -

And forget bands, how about genres themselves. Can anybody really draw sharp lines between jive, jump blues, and rock and roll?

G.

Oh, you're singing my song, Glen. I moderate at a music rating website, and the ridiculous lengths that some people want to go to to define a piece of music is as astounding as it is stupid. One of the functions of the site is to be able to apply genres to music in your collection, and as such new genres can be proposed and voted on in order for them to be added to the database. You should see some of the suggestions: "Progressive-Blackened-Death-Metal was one memorable example. I'm sure one day we will have as many "genres" as there are songs in the universe...
 
I don't recall the "Alt" tag ever being used prior to that...even if alternative music existed prior to the Grunge period.
Perhaps not the "Alt" tag, but - around my orbit at the time anyway - "Alternative" was pretty much in full swing as a common description by the early 80s. It could often be found in radio station classifications, sometimes - correctly or not - as almost interchangeable with the word "progressive".
I guess it's supposed to be an alternative to whatever was on the charts 6 months earlier!!! :D
That's how I see it. Punk/new wave were "alternatives" to production rock and disco, synth rock the alternative to punk, grunge the alternative to synth rock, etc. It's not quite that simple in the fine detail, but I think in broad strokes it works pretty well.
witzendoz said:
Alternative is a word I hate in music description, alternative is like saying Alternative to what the public like to hear.
I agree. The rebellion theme again. Time to re-shuffle the deck and grab a new identity.

The problem is, it doesn't take long for that new identity to become mainstream. Like Ozzy Osborne recently said (not verbatim), "People got tattoos to be different. If you want to really be different today, don't get a tattoo."

G.
 
"Progressive-Blackened-Death-Metal was one memorable example.
LOL, that would be a good name for my cast iron skillet :D.

Yeah, and it doesn't help when there's not always agreement on just what the different titles actually mean, as this thread acutely shows.

I've come to the conclusion that any "genre" or "style" that incorporates the use of the word "core" in it's name is an over-kill of a categorization.

G.
 
"Progressive-Blackened-Death-Metal was one memorable example.


That sounds like a food preparation style. Coming to a menu near you!

"I'd like to start with the caesar salad, a cup of the minestrone and for my entree I'd like the Progressive-Blackedend-Death-Metal Swordfish, with a twice-baked potato."
 
Certainly, some so-called "indie production" is simply a rationalized glorification of severe musical and production limitations. But there's plenty of stuff that seeks a more raw and direct approach to communicating musical ideas as compared to the often hackneyed production aesthetic of a given era.

When I listed to 50s and 60s country music and compare it modern Nashville pop, I get very nostalic for the old "under-produced" ways. Same with bee-bop jazz versus modern "smooth jazz" and a Pere Ubu as compared to Nickelback.
 
Back
Top