A question of panning:

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Eleanor Fudd

Eleanor Fudd

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If you have two identical mono tracks, and panned them hard left and right, you would heat it in the middle of your head, right? The question is: would you hear the two tracks exactly the same way no matter how far left and right they were panned, as long as they were panned the same distance from centre?

It seems an obvious 'yes,' but I keep arriving at unobvioulsy wrong conclusions.
 
Yes, assuming your headphones/monitors/ears are identical.
 
Well, pan law combined with acoustics could change the overall level of the phantom center image...
 
Eleanor Fudd said:
If you have two identical mono tracks, and panned them hard left and right, you would heat it in the middle of your head, right? The question is: would you hear the two tracks exactly the same way no matter how far left and right they were panned, as long as they were panned the same distance from centre?

It seems an obvious 'yes,' but I keep arriving at unobvioulsy wrong conclusions.
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Try it and see.

Two identical mono tracks, panned to each side of center at equal distances will sound mono up the middle.

I don't know why you'd want to do this, but knock yourself out.
 
Panning is a good way to find gold...

(I'm in one of my moods...)
 
Eleanor Fudd said:
If you have two identical mono tracks, and panned them hard left and right, you would heat it in the middle of your head, right? The question is: would you hear the two tracks exactly the same way no matter how far left and right they were panned, as long as they were panned the same distance from centre?
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's right.
If the two signals are equal and panned hard, you're getting 100% from each speaker.

Say you pull the left channel in 20%, it's now giving 80% left and 20% right.
Do the opposite to the right channel and what do you get?
100% from each speaker.
 
Steenamaroo said:
Yeah, that's right.
If the two signals are equal and panned hard, you're getting 100% from each speaker.

Say you pull the left channel in 20%, it's now giving 80% left and 20% right.
Do the opposite to the right channel and what do you get?
100% from each speaker.
Click to expand...
Edit - what I had posted here was backwards and not quite right. Steen seems to be describing the 6db pan law. I think 3db is more common, though it can be different depending on what you're mixing though. The real point is that it is not actually as simple and obvious as one might think.
 
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On a slight tangent.....

I was buying up a bunch of plugs over the holidays, and one that I picked up is this really cool stereo-izer plug from Brainworx. Now this isn't the first plug that promises to create stereo from a mono source....what's really cool about this one, is that it's 100% mono compatible, and actually sounds like you recorded the source with a M/S stereo setup, unlike most of the other stereo-izer plugs out there sound weird with their use of psychoacoustics create the stereo image.

I've already had call to try it out on a track for a song I'm working on, where there was a single-note riff on piano, so there's wasn't any point to playing/recording it a second time, or doing it in a different octave or anything like that....it's just a riff that was supposed to be for putting up the middle in the mix and more in the background behind vocals and guitar leads.
Well...it didn't work there....and I didn't want to just pan it off to one of the sides in any amount....so I then remembered I had that new plug, and figured it was the perfect time to try it.....and it sounds great. The piano riff sounds just like it was recorded with a pair of M/S mics, and you can sum it to mono with the plug and not get any weird stuff. The riff is now out of that dead center spot and on both sides.
Anyway, just thought for anyone looking for a cool stereo-izer plug....this is one of the best. Check out the reviews and videos for it.

Brainworx Stereomaker
(It was on sale over the holidays for like $50, and all their other stuff was also on sale....now it's all back to regular prices)
 
...though before laying out the money, check your DAW. Many have a facility like this but often tucked under a name that doesn't make the purpose clear. For example, in Audition you would use Effects/Stereo Imagery/Stereo Phase Shifter. The name doesn't sound like it would do anything to a mono signal but one of the presets is "mono to stereo" and the effect can be interesting on the right material.
 
I'm sure there are many "stereo-izer" plugs....but the Brainworx Stereomaker is the only one that is completely mono compatible. Check out this video review.

 
Eleanor Fudd said:
If you have two identical mono tracks, and panned them hard left and right, you would heat it in the middle of your head, right? The question is: would you hear the two tracks exactly the same way no matter how far left and right they were panned, as long as they were panned the same distance from centre?

It seems an obvious 'yes,' but I keep arriving at unobvioulsy wrong conclusions.
Click to expand...

In a 2-channel stereo system the definition of mono is identical signal in both channels. So, yes, any time there is no difference between left and right it is mono.
 
Mono track panned to the center = the same thing coming out of both speakers

Two identical mono tracks panned wide = the same thing coming out of both speakers

That is all there is to it.
 
Farview said:
Mono track panned to the center = the same thing coming out of both speakers

Two identical mono tracks panned wide = the same thing coming out of both speakers

That is all there is to it.
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Does anyone get a sense of difference between the two though ? It's hard to put it into words but two identical mono tracks panned wide seem to be on the edge more than a mono track on it's own in the centre.
 
Oh great googly moogly! It will, of course, still sound mono no matter where each track is panned as long as they are both panned the same distance in opposite directions. But the overall level as shown on the meters and/or heard in the air will most likely change. It is not exactly the same. There will be a noticeable and measurable difference.

Course, the question comes up why the fuck would you do this to begin? Do you have not have enough gain on one channel?
 
grimtraveller said:
Does anyone get a sense of difference between the two though ? It's hard to put it into words but two identical mono tracks panned wide seem to be on the edge more than a mono track on it's own in the centre.
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NO. It would be in your head if you sensed it, or something is wrong with your rig. Hit our mono button and see if anything changes. Better yet, have a friend hit the mono button where you can't see him and see if anything changes.
 
grimtraveller said:
Does anyone get a sense of difference between the two though ? It's hard to put it into words but two identical mono tracks panned wide seem to be on the edge more than a mono track on it's own in the centre.
Click to expand...

If there's an audible difference, it's just showing up minor imperfections in your system or (possibly) your hearing. What you hear would either be minor changes in the phase (timing) of one side or the other or even simply a small level difference (probably in your monitoring). If I do the experiment on my laptop's built in sound card with cheapie headphones, I can hear a slight difference that isn't there on the proper interface and monitors in my studio.
 
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