A question I haven't seen on here yet about mixing with monitors?

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Nathan1984

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Ok, so the other day I was sitting in my studio and came up with this question. I have Behringer B2031a studio monitors, these have 8 and 3/4 inch woofers in them. At different volumes things sound different. My question is, what do you guys suggest on volume levels when mixing? Things tend to get real bassy when turned up, and under emphasized at lower volumes is what I am kind of under the impression of. Is it best to have the volume blazing, or is it better to mix at a normal listening volume?
 
The "norm" is around 85dB SPL...at your mixing position.
You need a SPL meter to measure that. I prefer C-weighted over A-weighted (which is more for industrial noise, not broadband).

If your audio tone is changing dramatically with volume, then it's most likely a room issue and you are getting nodes and cancellations or doubling...etc. You need to read up on some acoustics to make sense of it all.

Also...it's normal that with higher volume, everything starts to flatten out and your ears have a harder time making sense of details and tones...plus, fatigue sets in real quick.
 
Ok, so the other day I was sitting in my studio and came up with this question. I have Behringer B2031a studio monitors, these have 8 and 3/4 inch woofers in them. At different volumes things sound different. My question is, what do you guys suggest on volume levels when mixing? Things tend to get real bassy when turned up, and under emphasized at lower volumes is what I am kind of under the impression of. Is it best to have the volume blazing, or is it better to mix at a normal listening volume?

You need to check both.

And sometimes turn it down so quiet that you can barely hear it. Once you learn your speakers you'll know what's going on. The B2031a's aren't too bad, either - but they are loud.
 
Rat Shack sells a decent SPL meter. Get one.
 
85dB SPL is high for listening level over time and enough to cause permanent hearing loss.

Just sayin'.

For anything critical at all I would stay below 80dB. EPA recommends 70dB or below to avoid hearing damage.
 
Easier to here lows (relative) at moderate to high level. Could it be the speakers too?
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I'm surprised your centerings on room treatment. Isn't a room's peaks and nulls pretty much all a positiion in the room variable and not how loud?
I was going offer it's our ears that changes. There's dynamic compression effect on speakers but Nathan's reporting more bass loud.
 
Our ears do not to respond to bass at low volumes as well as they do at higher volumes. This has to do with the ear itself, and is why they used to have 'loudness' switches on stereo amps.
 
I run a home studio out of a spare bedroom, no acoustic treatment. It is just a little hobby of mine, I'm still pretty inexperienced at the whole mixing concept. I cheat alot, I use toontrack ezmix and Izotope ozone alot.
 
Nathan - the easy answer is mix at a comfortable volume - play a reference CD through the system to get an idea how that sounds at the same volume. When you have the first try-out mix done, render it, burn a disc then listen to it in lots of other places, using other systems - your car, a friend's apartment CD player, a boombox, your parent's stereo downstairs, etc.
As an example, a song I just finished up sounded ok through my monitors and headphones, I rendered it, boosted the volume up (with Roxio audio editor), then burned a disc. As soon as I listened in my truck I heard a definite noise a few seconds in which was very noticeable on those speakers, but nowhere near as 'bad' on the monitors. Looking at the waveforms, I was quickly able to discern a slight clipping of a 12-string acoustic picked note. Quick fix with the edit pencil and volume envelope.
 
I'm surprised your centerings on room treatment. Isn't a room's peaks and nulls pretty much all a positiion in the room variable and not how loud?.
I was referring more to the fact that he said "real bassy when turned up, and under emphasized at lower volumes". I might have mis-read it, but I thought he was implying that it's problematic, not just a normal case of hearing more low end when it's louder. If that's the case, then lack of room treatment is probably a culprit.

Either way, you don't know what your speakers are telling you in an un-treated room. So IMHO, "treat your room" is never bad advice. :cool:
 
I always mix at concert sound levels and I never have a problem ..... What?
 
I run a home studio out of a spare bedroom, no acoustic treatment. It is just a little hobby of mine, I'm still pretty inexperienced at the whole mixing concept. I cheat a lot.

Hi Nathan,

I'm in pretty much the same boat as you, and I think that "cheating a lot" is not just inevitable it's actually a reasonably smart way to go - provided that we understand when we're cheating and why.


Our set ups will never match the equipment quality or acoustic properties of a professional studio so my current goal is to learn how to make the best use of what I do have. Fortunately, that doesn't mean that my results will inevitably be rubbish, it just means that I need to know where the traps are and how to step round them. There seem to be a range of strategies that allow us to do that, and still get good end results.

For instance, I knew that my room would be unreliable, but only I recently discovered that my monitors themselves would not be as consistent as I'd thought. I just bought the Kindle version of a highly regarded book on mixing by professional engineer and Sound on Sound writer Mike Senior. Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio and it tells me about a whole new range of problems I never even knew I had. Fortunately it also seems to give tips on how to get round them.

The opening pages deal at some length with the deficiencies of “ported monitors” and how they can mislead the unwary. Apparently the ports are there to overcome some problems, but the cost is that they create others. There are several pages of graphs and explanations, but here’s a sample:

...although the speaker’s overall low-frequency output is boosted by the port, the relationship between the sub-50Hz levels and the rest of the signal is seriously skewed at the same time, which makes it trickier to make judgements about instruments with low-frequency components

He then gives some photos of popular powered monitors which fall into that category. They include types which would probably be used by a pretty decent chunk of the members here. They include the KRK Rokit range (which I have), Behringers like yours, and some Adams and M-Audio (which I have a pair of in another room).


This seems to bear out the usefulness of strategies like using good quality professional recordings as 'reference tracks' so that we can to some degree 'borrow' the balance from a professional studio. There's no point in getting too stressed about the weaknesses in our gear, because it's still good enough to get results that are still very acceptable. We're more likely to be let down by lack of experience, knowledge and practice than by the equipment, and learning the craft and building the skills is half the fun! The bottom line for me is that if I like the end results, and they suit my purpose, then I'm not going to be too fussy about how I got there! :cool:
:)

All the best with your hobby.

Chris
 
85dB SPL is high for listening level over time and enough to cause permanent hearing loss.

Just sayin'.

For anything critical at all I would stay below 80dB. EPA recommends 70dB or below to avoid hearing damage.

I think it's best to find what is comfortable for your own setup...but 85dBA is the "safe" maximum. You can do 90dBA SPL for a couple of hours safely, after that, it's a problem. I use 85dB C-weighted, which is actually lower in loudness than A-weighted. A-weighted is NOT for broadband...it's for industiral noise, used by OSHA, so it doesn't take into account the very high or very low frequencies we often have in music.

Bob Katz of Digido Mastering suggests listeniing from 77 to 83 dB SPL.
The original reference was 85dB SPL C-weighted, slow setting on the SPL meter, using pink noise at -18dBFS to calibrate your monitors for 85dB SPL, but I think now it's been changed to 83 dB SPL, so use -20dBFS for the pink noise.

For uncompressed. wide-range material, the 80-ish levels will be good. If you are monitoring very compressed and "pushed-up" music, it will sound much louder at those levels since the normal up/down dynamics have been narrowed and raised...so you have to find your own comfort zone, though IMO, 70dB or below is pretty quiet for doing mixes.

Anyway...I have one of those TC Electronics "big knobs", and I marked three positions on it after calibrating with my SPL meter...75/80/85 dB SPL...so I'll float between them when I'm working.

One thing to consider, often when you mix, you are not listening continuously. You stop the mix a lot, make adjustments, etc. If it was just non-stop music, then I can see going a bit lower.
 
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