a piano in the mix

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dastig

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Hey all, I'm having trouble getting my piano to sound as upfront and powerful as those heard in today's radio-pop music (eg. Coldplay, Evanescence, the Ataris, etc). I think this is a mix and effects issue. My piano sound tends to sit on top of the mix, and also sounds very wimpy in comparison to the bands i'm listening to - the sounds have a lot more attack and body, while my tone is just thin.

I don't think this is a recording issue.. as I have tried recording my own piano, as well as using very expensive samples and VST's lent to me by others. What kind of effect do you think these groups use to get their sound?
 
It would help if you described your signal chain a little more. Specifically, what kind of piano, what mics, what preamps, soundcard, etc.? Also, what does the piano sound like in the room? If the room is poor, that will find it's way into your recording (unless, of course, you're recording direct and/or using midi/VSTi).

The records you are referring to were likely recorded in great sounding rooms with pristine signal chains by professional engineers. There's no substitute for that.

As for specific effects, I would try to keep them to a minimum. Reverb will put the piano a little further back in the mix, which may be what you're looking for. As for eq adjustments, it will totally depend on the sound you're getting and the context of the song/mix. Sweep around with a parametric EQ to find what you like and don't like. Most pop mixes tend to have thin/bright piano sounds when in the context of a full mix (rolled off bass & more upper mids).

Do you have a sound clip of what you are getting now?
 
i gave up on recording my piano.. i figured that my mics and preamps and room weren't good neouhg to actually get a good sound. Instead i resorted to piano samples.. Galaxy Steinway and also some Akai samples I came across. Maybe steinways/those samples aren't intended for rock music?

Anyways, here i a clip of what I am getting versus what I am aiming for:

Getting:


Aiming for:


I realize that the piano in mine plays more of an accompanying role than does the one i'm going for, but hopefully you guys can see waht i mean by "thin and weak sounding" as well as it sitting on top of the mix. I'm using Galaxy steinway VSTi in mine.
 
Your clip is just a single note and lacks any harmony or much in the way of dynamics/feel. Are you playing this in with a keyboard and replacing it, or just programming the samples in your computer?

The other clip is someone actually playing melody and harmony on a piano. It sounds like it could very well be a digital piano and has quite a bit of reverb on it. What it doesn't sound like is a concert piano.

I would suggest trying to adjust the velocity of some of your notes, add a harmony (left hand) part, and add some reverb to move it back in the mix. You might experiment with compression to give your samples a little more attack, like that of a hammer hitting the strings (set the attack time on the compressor such that the initial attack of the note comes through, and then it gets compressed).
 
theirs just sounds like it has more body. more of a bass end. i think giving it more reverb and a bit more sustain would probably achieve that
theirs also has a slightly dirty guitar mimmicing the melody.
 
I listened to the first example, and even hearing the samples, I was going to talk about mic placement. Are you doing some kind of processing on the piano? It sounds very cold and distant. It doesn't even sound like a good piano. I don't see why it would sound bad if the VSTi is good (I don't know it, but you describe it as if it is).
 
hey alex, are you saying the second example sounds cold and distant too?

anyways, the steinway samples should be good.. they're done by a pretty reputable company. maybe it is an arrangement problem after all? but even after listening to some of the company sound examples.. i'm convinced maybe that steinway grands aren't that great for the rock radio sound i'm going for? they tend to be very thin, and brilliant on the high end.

I am putting effects on it.. pretty heavy compression as well as a slight delay and some reverb. maybe that's contributing to the cold and distant sound?
 
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