A new song - 'You For Real'

Zombre

Zombre

New member
OK, here's a rough track. Still needs 'real' drums and probably needs someone to mix it, but in all it's glory here it is.

I used an Axe-FX Ultra for my guitars, everything recorded in Logic. I sequenced the drums, lol that's why they sound that way. Sorry about the shite vocals, unfortunately that's pretty much what I sound like! hahaha


http://www.icompositions.com/music/song.php?sid=139127


Any feedback I can get would be great, even if you hate it, lemme know why, eh?
 
I must be honest, I had high hopes for some great guitar tone when I read that you used the axe-fx ultra, but to be honest, it sounds like you used a cheap peavey amp. That unit has some sick guitar sounds, keep searching and tweaking. I know you can do better than that. Find a patch with some tube saturation.

The vocals are in tune, so there's no problem there, but they sound muffled. Sounds a little like you're singing through a thick blanket. The song does get a little monotonous. It needs some change of pace somewhere.

As for the mix, everything sounds dead center. No width at all. Use some panning to spread things out. That alone will improve the mix.

Keep us posted.
 
lol Well, I suck so keep those high hopes from ever coming forth in regards to my tunes... Now you've learned your lesson!

Thanks so much for the feedback, as you can hear, I'm frustrated with the Axe-FX. Maybe I don't have a clue about tone, I don't know... but for sure I do feel like I wasted a lot of coin on something that pretty much goes 'bzzzzzzzz'
Anyone who knows how to use that goddamn thing, please let me know...

Yeah, not much in regards to stereo separation anywhere, but really this tune is more of a learning experience than anything else, I'm really looking for feedback and thought that by throwing out a tune such as this I could get some pointers...

Maybe it's some core principles in Logic that I'm missing, too. To be sure, my tunes definitely have a 'flavour' to them that kind of bugs me.

Thanks in advance!
 
Listening now. I was expecting to really not like it, reading GuitZero's comment; but the tune has a lot of potential. The sounds could use tweaking, n'stuff. The drums sound nice to me...and the playing is likkedy. Vox up! Some more variation in the arrangement....yep. Some space and figure in the backing [some guitar lines in the backing chords, for example...]...theme variation. Bass guit is lost. Wants attack on the guits!!!

Better than a lot of stuff. Edit time about 3 minutes. A short intro would be nice.

MHO
 
Hey,

You already noted the drums so I'll leave them alone. I actually thought the vocals seemed good pitch-wise and you are pretty expressive. The guitar tone, while plenty loud in the mix, sounds kind of small and overly crunchy. Kind of like a small solid state amp. The performance is tight though.

The mix overall seems small sounding and mid-rangey. If you could widen things a bit and bring out more highs and lows in general I think it would improve things.
 
Ok, I spent the better part of the afternoon working on this tune, cool thing is that I learned a thing or 2, even if it still sounds horrible, although different! Still far from done, and I think I'm losing all sense of hearing after today! hahaha Anyways;

1) I thought that maybe the drums being midi in Logic (Indie Live Drums) kind of 'mono-ized' the thing somewhat, so I decided to find out how to send each note to a different track so that I could individually pan and eq/compress, verb, etc.

2) I wanted to get the vocals to stand out a bit better in different parts so in the chorus I copied the main vocal to another track and panned 'em hard R+L.
In the verse I had a delay on there originally so I decided to take it off. Kind of got rid of the clutter a bit.

3)I turned up the vocals, and redid the solo. I was trying for a George Lynch thing, and due to the strat I play it was a bit squeaky methinks...

4) I swear that my guitar tone is driving me nuts. I spent fekking hours on the Axe-fx Ultra trying to get something that sounded interesting, but to no avail until I added a 'resonator' block. Hopefully it no longer sounds like a shit-ass peavey rage, lol (I was kind of trying to get a Jim Martin from 'Faith No More' type sound) It still was a bit muddy so I ended up applying an eq to my tracks, again panned somewhat and doubled.

5)I originally had a synth type thing in there also, but it was kinda buried so I just axed it...

Lookin' forward to some thoughts and crits

http://www.icompositions.com/music/song.php?sid=139153
 
This is way better. Doesn't even sound like the same song to me. The guitar tone is better, not great yet, but better by far. The vocal doubling and panning helps, but it would sound better IMO if you did a second take instead of just doubling the existing vocal. Also the high falsetto part with the echo has too much echo. So much that it muddles the words, and you can't understand what's being said.

If you are in logic and want that much echo, you can put the silver comp on the echo bus and sidechain in the vocal track, so it quiets the echo only when the original vocal is playing.

This version is much more interesting and the mixing sounds a lot better! Nice job.
 
Much better.

The guits are defined and crunchy. But the execution is a little sloppy:

Like the sustaining tag-ends of the chords....they don't end consistently on the same beat, for example...in where they oughtta be...but lazy going out. A little more chug chug and tightness in the ends of the phrases would punch it up.

Vox up. Good!

The bass sound and level are not so good, yet. It's sort of there...but not defined, and certainly not working together, sound-wise, with the BD.

I'd add the next third up on the chorus background vox....get out the visegrips:eek:.

When the chorus hits, there needs to be another element to 'break it out'...some kind of sustaining or pedaling bass, synth, or vox parts to accompany the vox you have [they fail in the attempt to really let the chorus out of the box]. Also, snipping the guitar's phrase-endings in the verses...chug chugging it ....would be a better contrast between the short, businesslike parts in the verse, and a breakout sustain in the chorus, I think.

You might like to devise a couple signature guitar lines...harmonized? to play in some flat spots where there's not much happening.

The two-note pulls between the chords aren't working. They're a good idea, but I think they should be tracked over the rythm part, so they sustain and ring into the next few beats. Cheating, I know. But the transition on the same guit is abrupt and uncomfortable.

Getting there. Good work.

There are a couple heavy death metal submissions on page one that have the power in the bottom this tune needs to get off the runway. You should give a listen...great references!!

BTW...you have real good hands on the neck. Work on the phrasings of your lines. They tend to start on the one, and end on the four. It's like you're reacting to the changes instead of driving them like a rabid cowboy. Melodic flourishes that jump the bar lines and anticipate the changes are interesting .... da bomb. You play a lot of notes really well. Just think about where you want to place them to get to a next level. Try an experiment: slide the solo part two beats forward...listen. Might be some good examples of change anticipation and over-the-bar-line genius. Maybe not.... :^)

Hey! Try chorus effect on the chorus b'ground vox, instead of the cave!!
 
Coolness. Lots to be learned here. Tomorrow's another day, and I'm gonna take another stab at it. Thanks so much for your guy's input, supremely helpful!
 
BTW....I just wanted to make sure you took no offense at the 'lots of notes' comment...it's sometimes used as a cut.

Among the scales you were playing was melodic minor [asc]. That was really pleasing to hear, and shows you know some stuff. [do the down runs with a flat 6 & 7 if you wanna really impress....finger twisters! But to-die-for sounds!
What I'm saying is that you're at a certain level...elevated among shred-like beings....because you're not just playing standard modalities of the major scale...just. You use your ears, knowledge, and have chops. The next step is to free yourself from the confines of the bar lines, and drive, rather than respond to, the changes, starting at the bar lines. Every time you stop at the bar , every couple measures, it gives the impression you're setting up for the next pat, hot lick...which may be true, but you can make it sound like you aren't, by ignoring those lines.....saving setup for the middle beats of a measure...doing slower, melodic or arpeggiated spew, and with less hesitation, driving into the next lick before the 'one'. You're already outlining the next change for a beat or two...playing, temporarily, poly-chordal wonder. And coolest is when it's a non-diatonic change or altered chord coming up: you're sounding temporarily 'out'...then the chord resolves to you!!
This is a concept I got from a great jazz pianist a long time ago. And it applies to a lot of great soloing, on all instruments. I've hardly ever been qualified to worry about it, but you may find it valuable as you progress...to think about, and apply.

You're an accomplished soloist. Otherwise I wouldn't bother giving you the secret sauce.:D

Arpeggiated chordal movement, independent of the changes, that goes in, out, and back in ....resolving itself, is prolly the next level after this. Nuthin' but work..but I reckon you're young...and have time.

And don't forget the whole tones, diminished, altered [harm and mel mins] scales!! Every V7...especially with a tune like this..is an opportunity to dazzle ears! Work them into your licks...make friends w/'em.
 
lol I take no offense at anything, as a matter of fact everything you said was true. Most people don't catch the 'melodic minor' thing, although as you noticed it wasn't 'true' mel minor. You have some ears! Everyone and their dog runs the major modes, and harmonic minor, but it seems that melodic minor is left in the dust. Too hard maybe? I'm still makin' it part of my vocab, so all of these points are truly helpful. Along with the other points in regards to the mix and arrangement of the tune.

Truthfully, all I did yesterday was turn the bassline up a bit. Today's efforts will be spent rewriting the line and getting it to fit with my kick drum as well as the progression. I'm also going to try and spend some time on the chorus part guitar riffs, maybe I'll do some variation, but i think I'll certainly do something besides the existing powerchords- Seems cheap, almost too basic.

Seriously, you can't buy this kind of help, thanks so much to everyone for checking out my stuff and commenting. Only thing is, I pay attention so you're gonna see some evolution and quick! lol
 
First off, I was disappointed in that first guitar tone (the second was better). Perhaps there is a steep learning curve to that Axe-Fx thing which I thought was the Holy Grail when I saw the advertisements and reviews. You might start with your monitoring equipment - it could be deceiving you.

The song struck me as sophomoric and strange at first, then it made me think of Marilyn Manson except without his level of talentless suckage (John 5 contains all of the talent in MM imo). This song and your voice grew on me quickly. I was afraid I'd be singing it in my sleep, luckily I took care of that problem :drunk:

Your playing is quite good. I loved those Yngwie runs! You are lucky to have Jeff offer a lot of good advice as well.

As far as the mix goes, it's getting better. You might try checking the eq on each track (perhaps, going flat, and adjusting sparingly). Make sure each part sounds good dry, when in doubt re-record, then 'sweeten' with eq. This helped me a lot:
http://www.recordingwebsite.com/articles/eqprimer.php

rock on
 
"The song struck me as sophomoric and strange at first, then it made me think of Marilyn Manson except without his level of talentless suckage (John 5 contains all of the talent in MM imo). This song and your voice grew on me quickly. I was afraid I'd be singing it in my sleep, luckily I took care of that problem "


Aww this is a HUGE compliment. I always wished I could get cool rock grit like Chris Cornell or someone like that on my voice, but no... lol This is the way I sound, for better or worse! I'm glad that you think the tune's catchy and has some potential. Really my studio chops are somewhat lacking, so that's what I'm going after learning hence my recent posts here! The feedback I've gotten so far has been invaluable, thanks again to everyone.

I have a pair of Roland DS7's as my monitors so far; I'll be upgrading those at some point, but they don't seem to lie too much.

The Axe-FX has been somewhat of a dissappointment since it arrived. I've mucked with the presets, edited tones until the cows come home and it still sounds fizzy and lifeless on distorted tones when I record direct. The Podxt has given me a LOT more success, and truthfully the Logic Plugins (Amp Designer) have given me a lot more happiness in regards to my 'sound'.
I'd like to just mic my amp, but the whole point of having the Axe is to keep my family from suffering the wrath of Marshall...

Anyways, back to work, lol...
 
I liked the energy in thing. I liked the singing. The song started kind of abruptly - no intro or anything. Caught me a little off guard.

Guitars sound OK, but they're over distorted. The gain was turned a little too high I think. Also sounds like there's not much on them above 4-K or so.

The bass level is sitting about right I think. Not much definition on it though.

The word "hell" at 2:08 had something amiss.

Good riffing in the solo.

Oh and I liked the synths. Nice instrumentation choice.
 
Zombre said:
"....
I'd like to just mic my amp, but the whole point of having the Axe is to keep my family from suffering the wrath of Marshall....
Click to expand...

I feel your pain my fellow family man! It's hard to be a rocker when the wife, kids, and dog don't want to feel the metal at 9 at night! I even wait for them to go to the store, so I can croak at the mic without torturing the innocent :spank:
 
Well, I spent all afternoon playing with the AxeFX. I was seriously starting to go out of my mind when I thought 'wait a sec, it's ALWAYS clipping somewhat... is it my interface?' Sure enough. Not only did I have it plugged into an inst/mic input as opposed to a line/mic input but that particular input is SUPER crackly and kind of intermittent.

I would not have discovered this and probably would have gotten rid of my Axe-FX as a result. Thanks dudes, and yes I'm a feckin' idiot... All good, as I'm slowly recovering from said idiocy...

lol Now i can work on the actual tracks!
 
http://www.icompositions.com/music/song.php?sid=139537

OK, here's the 3rd and final installment of this tune. Yes, I know... Pretty self indulgent. Yeah the drums are, ummm kind of insane (Betamonkey drum loops kick ass...)and the whole track is a bit nutso.

I do wish I was a better singer, well I wish I had a raspier voice, but I don't so what can you do, eh? Special thanks to Satan for background vocals in the prechorus...

I changed the guitar tone once again, re-sang and replayed pretty much everything. It's kind of turned into this monster now! hahaha Anyways, I think it's time to shelf this now for a while...
 
Wow...that is pretty different to be sure. Overall, I think I like the 2nd mix best. I actually prefer the sound of these drums, but I think they are way too busy for this track. Could be just me although it sort of sounds like you already might be thinking the same thing. This time around I thought your leads played under the vocals were too buried. They could come up some and still not get in the way. Anyway, while there might be a bunch of specific things I would do differently with this (speaking with zero experience in the genre) I still think you are waaaaay ahead of your initial mix.:)
 
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