A new 5th Street Band song for ya

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sprynmr

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Check out the new song.

I think my mixing has improved at least a little. Please critique though and let me know what you don't like.

Aside from the out of tune soprano sax... its a crappy soprano and every note is out of tune in a different direction so there isn't much I can do about that until I get a `real` soprano sax.

Really do critique though... don't hold back. Let me know what you think of the song, and the mix.

Let me know if you can hear any distortion... I 'ultramaximized' it to louden it up close to other music, but it was too much at first and caused distortion. I lowered it down a lot, and I think its gone. Also realize that there is some distorted guitar... and make sure its not that you are hearing.

Its called 'Late Last Night'

http://www.5thstreetband.com/internaldl.html

(The last song on the page.)

Thanks guys,
Robert
 
I feel the love man:cool: . not much to say about the mix and stuff. sounds like you know what needs to be done already.
sounds like the vocals start distorting some around 3:00 or so, but that's the price of passion, eh?
vocals with passion rule.
 
This is one of those songs that would REALLY benefit from a good recording. With some songs, you can kinda' "get it" even with a sketch recording... My brain is telling me this is a really good song trying to happen, and my ears are telling me it's just not there yet.

The vocals seem too loud at the beginning, and they jump in and out throughtout the rest of it.

The acoustic and bass sound really good to me...then that sax comes in. Man, do you really think that tracks's even necessary? It detracts a lot more than it adds, in my opinion.

Some timing weirdness when the drums come in.

That chorus is just SCREAMING for backup vocals.

Your voice is great.
 
your songwriting and singing are very very good. the band needs a lot of work though. very very loose. actually the guitarist sounds pretty locked in but that drummer and the bass are having serious timing issues. i know you told me last time that it was headphones or something shit like that throwing them off but dude it sounds really bad (the breakdown at 1:55 for example is extra bad). stream of conciousness stuff here but you gotta get something resembling a smooth level with your voice. it's very good as i said but you are just having issues staying at one volume.

i think you said you were the sax player right? don't take this the wrong way but i don't think you need a sax in this song. and while i'm on the subject of production i think you should do the following (i know, i gave you a list last time which you promptly ignored as you should have but here i go again):

1. first verse, just singer and the acoustic guitar.
2. lose the second guitar and sax in the beginning...actually lose them all together. no offense, your playing fine in this one and i really like the sax just doesn't seem to fit in real well here.
3. whoever is playing the tamborine should stop that. just bring in the drums at the chorus and make them smack will ya? they sound really sissy-like.
4. get some harmonies going in the second chorus and third chorus

last comment. your singer (can't remember if that's you) has a damn fine voice.

excellent songwriting, that's the reason i'm so interested in ripping this apart by the way. deserves a better production

best of luck. keep posting, and i'll keep telling you pretty much the same thing over and over.....hope you don't mind.
 
chrisharris said:
My brain is telling me this is a really good song trying to happen, and my ears are telling me it's just not there yet.


i should have just said that.
 
I know I know the sax sucks in this mix. Honestly it would sound a whole lot better were it in a quality soprano sax that wasn't tuned so bad that I couldn't adjust it with my embrouchure. The sax is just a $500 piece of shit that sounds like crap. I don't know what to do about it right now, cept see how it sounds with a tenor. I can't take out the sax man... our band sound involves the sax. Kick out the sax and I'm out of the band :-/.

i think you said you were the sax player right? don't take this the wrong way but i don't think you need a sax in this song. and while i'm on the subject of production i think you should do the following (i know, i gave you a list last time which you promptly ignored as you should have but here i go again):
I did implement some of your suggestions!! They helped improve the mix, though its still sub par.
your songwriting and singing are very very good. the band needs a lot of work though. very very loose. actually the guitarist sounds pretty locked in but that drummer and the bass are having serious timing issues. i know you told me last time that it was headphones or something shit like that throwing them off but dude it sounds really bad (the breakdown at 1:55 for example is extra bad). stream of conciousness stuff here but you gotta get something resembling a smooth level with your voice. it's very good as i said but you are just having issues staying at one volume.

Don't dynamics show emotion? Thought this is what compressors are for?

Trust me when the band plays together we are tight. When we play along with headphones one at a time, we aint to good. I don't know if we just need practice or we need improvements like actual good quality headphones or what, but we just aren't good at this tracking stuff. Honest we play real well as a full band.

Thanks for the help though... I am taking it in.

~Robert
 
Woah... plosive alert!:)

Yeah, I agree that this is worth doing a lot better. I'm not sure I've ever heard a more dynamically all over the place song - in the sense the vocal goes from way-loud-in-your-face to several feet away, like he backed off from the mic and walked away. Kinda like that old Seseme Street bit: "Near..... FAR.... Near...."

I'd also vote for dumping the sax. I like the idea, but it is pretty out of tune and sounds kinda more like a kazoo (did I spell that right?)

Chris
 
there is no "presense" in any of the tracks...or the recording in general. the vocals are really dry and sound "unmixed and raw" sounding. This sounds like a "push fadars" mix and needs some icing on it to finish off the cake. sonically, each instrument SOUNDS overdubbed and the band doesn't gel together to make ONE sound. and the sax just cuts thru and draws attention to itself rather than becoming a "part" of the song.

Nice song, I suppose, but not strong enough to overcome a mediocre recording.
 
I d be more inclined to put a stick click on the soft parts and then into the choruses bring the snare out, but without the rolls n stuff, there`s some pretty picking going on and it distracts from it, too busy. After you go back for the quieter resolve near the end the march on the snare might work better there then break back to the pop snare for the ending. The guitar and vocals could benefit from a little sparkle in the eq. The level in the voc is kinda inconsistent. The sax playing the part it did in the end sounded pretty good for me.

I do like the feel of the tune, its a good ride... :)
 
sprynmr said:
I can't take out the sax man... our band sound involves the sax. Kick out the sax and I'm out of the band :-/.

on this song, i suggest putting down the sax and helping out with some backup singing that is desparately needed in the chorus. a very big part of great musicianship is knowing when not to play imo.

sprynmr said:
I did implement some of your suggestions!! They helped improve the mix, though its still sub par.

oh, you're listening to me. LOL. i'm not used to having an audience even if it is one person! in that case, here's what i'm going to leave you with. start with tightening the performance. forget all other mixing elements until you get this part fixed. music starts with rythm imo and it's really sounding very sloppy right now. how about sticking a very loud click in everyone's ear when they are recording?

sprynmr said:

Don't dynamics show emotion? Thought this is what compressors are for?

What compressors are for is a topic that couldn't be covered in this thread without lot's of debate i'm sure. what we're all hearing is a guy who starts out right in front of the mic and then somewhere in the song steps back about five feet. it just paints that picture which i'm sure isn't what you want.

again, i'm spending the time writing all this cause underneath there is some solid songwriting going on.
 
Bit of distortion/popping on the vocal, I think. That snare work is magic! I'm listening on headphones, but maybe the vocals are a bit low when the band is full on. Good clean sound on the mix.

I love soprano sax. It sounds best at the beginning, btw, when you're not singing, and then later in the break. It doesn't sound so good when it overlaps your voice - I don't know why, cuz the guitar doesn't have a similar distracting effect. Maybe the sax would have a doubly powerful effect if it didn't play quite as much when you're singing. Or if you want it in the verses, how about stabs or fills, and leave the noodling to the non-sung bits?

Ace sound on the acoustic guitar.

Yeah, nice one. :)
 
Decent song. Nice catchy chorus.

The vocals get covered a bit in the chorus. I think (in addition to harmonies in the chrous as Chris said) doubled vocals would be perfect on this song. A nice reverb wpi;d

Plosive at :37. Another at 2:31 and w:34. Little goofup at :04 on the bass.

The flute didn't really work for me. It just didn't seem to fit. Especially in the chorus.

I like your voice. Good tone and power.
 
(ps... the mix on that page is actually updated since a couple min ago... small changes.)
1.) How do I go about adding 'presence' to these tracks? Most of them had two mics, a regular micing setup and a room mic for room sound (though you don't get much anyway in a cement basement.) I added reverb a little bit to everything to try and fuse it together some. What do I listen for to EQ it better? What about electric guitar, what is the general procedure for adding that in to a mix. (I know there is no set procedure.)

2.) Would a wind screen get rid of the plosiveness or do I have to get the singer to sing differently. I've already been trying to do that some by teaching him what I remembered about things like that from my jazz choir days.... been having him sing b's instead of p's a little bit... and removing the ssss and big t's at the end of words.

3.)Right now we record vocals on a Shure 58... we don't have money to upgrade yet, but suggestions for when we do?

4.) I agree that I have to know when the sax doesn't fit, but I really think it can fit in this song. I think it could sound great if I actually had a soprano sax that wasn't falling apart.... but what would you think about the sound of a tenor in this? Or a tenor in the chorus parts just helping support the sound and the soprano in soloish areas?

5.) We'll work on some harmonies... we didn't want to overdo harmonies on this demo cd, but you are right they would sound good on this song.

6.) I'm not the singer or guitarist or anything... just the sax player :-) oh and the webmaster/recorder/mixer/etc.

7.) Part of the wavering volume in the singer's voice may not be his fault. Since we don't have a compressor and the verse and chorus are at such different dynamics we recorded them separate so we could taylor the levels to the different volumes and get the highest quality recording of both. I tried to even them up in the mix as best possible, but they are still different.

8.) Drums... I don't really know what more to do until we get some nice compressor/gates for recording. And I don't really have the ear to hear the minute differences in drum sounds or know what to change to get them sounding better.... I'm working on it. I did all I know as far as mixing with them. I really don't know what to EQ to change their sounds or anything.

9.) Hey TripleM, I don't hear the goofup in the bass... can you explain a little more? I assume by :04 you meant 4 seconds into the song not 4 seconds remaining time.



Man... This stuff is hard to jump into... there are so many many different factors you can change, and endless possibilities... a lot of it kind of blurs together to me. Its hard to train my ear to hear the differences. These songs are my first venture into mixing, so my head is still swimming.... well... doggy-paddling at best.

Actually I may be in luck soon... a producer of a couple of the popular bands right now heard us and wants to record us.... I won't say the name or the bands he's done yet so I don't feel as dumb if it doesn't come through. But I would absolutely love to just focus on the playing and not worry about the recording aspects of things. He wants to meet and hear us live within a week or so, so I'm crossing my fingers. Cross with me.

Thanks for your help though... and I appreciate the honesty always even though its a little disheartening to hear that the sax part kind of ruins the song.... but I already felt it did.

Anywho... thanks for the thoughts. If any of you are around Buffalo or Rochester, you should come check out a show! We put on a heck of a live show I'm not afraid to say! Got a couple in the Buffalo area this weekend, and a couple at Milestones in rochester coming up.
(Oh yea... check our website for the locations... www.5thstreetband.com)
Thanks guys...
Bob
 
sprynmr said:

Actually I may be in luck soon... a producer of a couple of the popular bands right now heard us and wants to record us....

that would be your best route i think right now. try and get some help so you don't have to keep banging your head on this stuff. let us know how the producer feels about the sax :).

best of luck to you.
 
Yeah, just keep at it - it'll get clearer one step at a time. For example, get the singer a pop screen to put in front of the mic and maybe sing a touch off-axis on the plosives.

Something else I forgot to mention - the sax has less reverb or room on it than other things in the mix, so it stands right out at the front, as if it's being highlighted. If you add some (more?) reverb to it, it'll blend in with the rest better. As for tenor? Well, I'd go for the tenor if it got rid of the intonation issues. l'm far from perfectionist, but it's nice when things are sorta in tune and in time. :)
 
Yeah I meant 4 seconds in. Didn't it seem to you that the bass stumbled over a note right there? Perhaps it was intentional, but it sounded like a goofup to me.
 
I downloaded this last night because I wanted to hit someone that I haven’t listened to before. I’m listening at work with headphones. I just now read some of the responses and it looks like anything that I noticed has been pretty well covered. Namely, a little loose on the performance side. Vocal is not consistent. I think the vocal is fine in the verses for the most part. The singer has a good voice. In the choruses, the vocal gets buried in the instrumentation. The soprano sax sounds ok in some spots, but pretty harsh in other spots. I think it is over played in this song. It competes with the vocal on too many occasions and very badly on the last held note in the song.

The song seems pretty decent to me. It has a nice feel.

To my untrained ears the whole thing sounds kind of muddy. I can’t wait until I start putting something more complex together here shortly. I’m sure it won’t sound as good as this LOL. So I’d say, you’re doing alright from my perspective. We only get better by doing, right?

I would say, nice work overall.
 
Tiny bit of fuzz on gtr track...

Oh, this is cool! Recorder (flute) bit loudly mixed. Nice windchimes! (an old song of mine had those on it)... the gtr lick sounds Smashing Pumpkins-ish... like one of the songs on Mellon Collie...)

Drums ARE kinda like Jimmy Chamberlain... rrrtteettt-t-t-t-tap!

This production is dry... decidedly so... this would "glue" together better with some 'verb, judiciously used between your tracks...

bass is giving you some mud... do you do the "cut the lows on gtr" thing? Try rolling off all lows on gtrs below 150Hz... esp the electrics. Ya know what? Do it on the recorder track, too... you'd be surprised how much that will clear things up.

The recorder could use the reverb... as could the drums (somewhat)... vocs are fighting to stay up front...

Listen #2: Well performed gtr and bass... a small clam on recorder in the intro...

Some definite PLOSIVES on the vocs... did you use a pop screen? I'm thinking specifically in the verse right before the first chorus.

Must say... I like all these elements. This really made me glad I downloaded. Thank you :)


Chad
 
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