A-lott-a Cheap Mics or One Expensive One???

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radzikk

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I'm kind of new around here and had sort of a weird question.
I've been messing around with recording my own tunes for years, found this forum a couple months ago and have learned more in those couple of months than in the rest of my own trial and error. I have a few mics (MXL2003, MXLV69, SM-58, Sure BG1.6, matched pair of MXL603's on the way from e-bay). The mics aren't bad but when I record I feel like I'm not getting my true tone at times.
On some song with some mic I like it with another song with the same mic I hate it. I look at some of the higher class mics and the prices they bring and wonder if thats the way to go, or do I just buy more "cheap" mics and just try them until I find what works on a situation.
I understand that there is no "perfect" mic for every person on every song. But is it better to save up the bucks for a Neumann at $2000+ or just buy 10 $200 mics and try to figure out which is best in a given situation???
Thanks for the Help
-k
 
radzikk said:
On some song with some mic I like it with another song with the same mic I hate it.
Click to expand...

That's true even with very expensive mics. It's not like you can spend thousands of dollars on a mic and suddenly have it perfect for every application.

I wouldn't recommend 10 X $200 mics in place of a $2K mic. But maybe 3 or 4 good, solid mics for $2K. What to do get depends on the music/sound you're going for and the applications/instruments you have.

The performance of your mics can also be affected by your microphone preamps and AD converters. If you don't have some good ones, you might look at investing in that area, too.

Also, make sure the room where you're recording doesn't sound like ass. If it does, you need to put some attention and work into making that area sounding good.
 
post a clip and the rest of your recording chain.......

Ive heard some great tunes recorded with mics no better than the ones you are using........

if you are gonna put out $2000+ for a mic, this must be one hell of a serious hobby......
 
DOT has given you excellent advice. A hobbyist doesn't need a $2000 mic, nor would our signal chain warrant it. A couple nice $400 - $500 mics and a channel strip or pre amp (toft atc-2 or something) and you'll get some nice listenable tracks
 
radzikk said:
I'm kind of new around here and had sort of a weird question.
I've been messing around with recording my own tunes for years, found this forum a couple months ago and have learned more in those couple of months than in the rest of my own trial and error. I have a few mics (MXL2003, MXLV69, SM-58, Sure BG1.6, matched pair of MXL603's on the way from e-bay). The mics aren't bad but when I record I feel like I'm not getting my true tone at times.
On some song with some mic I like it with another song with the same mic I hate it. I look at some of the higher class mics and the prices they bring and wonder if thats the way to go, or do I just buy more "cheap" mics and just try them until I find what works on a situation.
I understand that there is no "perfect" mic for every person on every song. But is it better to save up the bucks for a Neumann at $2000+ or just buy 10 $200 mics and try to figure out which is best in a given situation???
Thanks for the Help
-k
Click to expand...

If you're hearing probelms with the inexpensive mics you already own, that's a sign that your "listening" skills are growing. You're fortunate, because many cannot hear what you can hear. It's probably time to move up in the mic department. Dot has a good point that a few mics which total about $2K might be a good thing. There are many excellent products in the $500 to $1,000 price range.

As to the $2,000 for a single mic. Well, if you can do it, and then do it again later, and again, you'll have the best. Nothing wrong with having the best. There is a difference, usually, between $2K+ mics and the $500-$1,000 crowd. Usually, it is a stunning difference.

I opted for this course. Less mics, but great ones. Buy them one at a time. Be patient.
 
radzikk said:
I'm kind of new around here and had sort of a weird question.
I've been messing around with recording my own tunes for years, found this forum a couple months ago and have learned more in those couple of months than in the rest of my own trial and error. I have a few mics (MXL2003, MXLV69, SM-58, Sure BG1.6, matched pair of MXL603's on the way from e-bay). The mics aren't bad but when I record I feel like I'm not getting my true tone at times.
On some song with some mic I like it with another song with the same mic I hate it. I look at some of the higher class mics and the prices they bring and wonder if thats the way to go, or do I just buy more "cheap" mics and just try them until I find what works on a situation.
I understand that there is no "perfect" mic for every person on every song. But is it better to save up the bucks for a Neumann at $2000+ or just buy 10 $200 mics and try to figure out which is best in a given situation???
Thanks for the Help
-k
Click to expand...
Start saving up more money now...so when you start auditioning mics you'll be able to afford the mic(s) you like the best and not have to settle for second or third best.
 
If you're going to plop down a couple grand on a mic, then I think you might try changing your approach.

When it's time to do it, I believe it should be when you come accross that one mic that you sort of fall in love with. It's gotta' be something that you try out and experience and just say . . . "Yea. That's it, I gotta' have this thing."

Otherwise, you're just throwing money at something with no idea whether or not it's going to pay off.

It's a lot like finding the right woman. I don't know of many people who meet with any success by deliberately going out in search of the perfect one. You just kinda' stumble accross her and you hit it off. Then you gotta' be with her and you think about her all the time and all that jazz. Then you start dating and everything's great . . . then she starts getting demanding and difficult. Pretty soon she cheats on you with your best friend and your dog, tears your poor little heart in to shreads . . . then you're left poor, miserable and heartbroken at the side of the road with no clothes. Aaarhhh ! ! ! The agony ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
 
Thanks for the help so far. I would post a clip but don't have the means at moment.
As far as my chain goes right now for vocals:
MXL2003 or V69 --> FW410 Rec Interface -->Cakewalk GTP3

I just bought an Ashly Dual 15 Band EQ that I will probably need to use as a loop FX. And I'm probably looking to get a mic pre and an external comp to try to feed a little better signal in.

And I wasn't saying I had the $2k for a mic, but it seems like every couple of weeks I drop a few hundred$$ on equip (I can live on beans and cheap beer), and I was wondering if that's the way I should keep going to get a better sound, or if I should just stash my cash in a mattress for the next year and maybe be able to afford something later.

Again thanks for the help.
-k
 
Now it really depends on your motivation for recording. Is it to make a good demo to sell to companies? Is it to make a good demo so others will want to record at your facility? Is it to make a decent final product? If you are not miserable With the quality of your stuff now, then , by all means, save, listen, read, chat, go to a studio and record with their stuff, find what works best for you and your sound..........Then buy, buy, buy
 
radzikk said:
Thanks for the help so far. I would post a clip but don't have the means at moment.
As far as my chain goes right now for vocals:
MXL2003 or V69 --> FW410 Rec Interface -->Cakewalk GTP3

I just bought an Ashly Dual 15 Band EQ that I will probably need to use as a loop FX. And I'm probably looking to get a mic pre and an external comp to try to feed a little better signal in.

And I wasn't saying I had the $2k for a mic, but it seems like every couple of weeks I drop a few hundred$$ on equip (I can live on beans and cheap beer), and I was wondering if that's the way I should keep going to get a better sound, or if I should just stash my cash in a mattress for the next year and maybe be able to afford something later.

Again thanks for the help.
-k
Click to expand...
The better your audio chain is... the better your recording will be... period.
 
I didn't see what you are recording...drum kits, guitar, vocals etc.....The advantage of recording in stereo is dimension. You lose some of that with a single mic. But if it's a great mic, it may not be all that important. I would rather have a single great mic on an acoustic guitar vs a pair of so-so mics. You also need a halfway decent pre.
 
I am mainly recording vocal and acoustic guitar. Electric and Bass I do direct, and I've been using drum loop CD's for that end. I do sort of southern rock/alt country stuff, the singer songwriter deal. I'm just trying to lay down decent demo's of my songs, but it can get tough to record vocals when the sound sucks. It kinda' sucks the energy out of the recording, and there isn't any form of EQ for that.
BTW I'm thinking about the JoeMeek threeQ pre seems like a sice unit for the $$. Has anyone recorded through one yet??
-k
 
You didn't mention the rest of your rig (I guess because this is the microphone room), but if you have at least mid quality preamps, you should be getting a decent sound.

It seems you haven't found the microhone that really suits your voice. It's like when you go to a studio, and they have all these vocal mikes lined up, and you go through each one to find the one that's perfect for you. The engineer will start with their most expensive microphone, and work down from there until they find the one that flatters your voice the most. It may be a Neumann U-something or an SM57 that works best on you--or maybe some unknown microphone the engineer picked up a flea market for ten bucks. It doesn't matter as long it sounds good. That's why studios have so many vocal microphones.

This can also be said of acoustic guitar. Every guitar sounds different, even if their the same model. They have different resonant frequencies, and some microphones will flatter the guitar while others will make it sound like crap. Maybe I'm getting extreme here, but you get the point.

If you are able to try out microphones before buying them, you'll have the best chance of getting the right microphones for your set up, regardless of cost. It's like Chessrock said, buy the microphone you fall in love with, the one where you say "I sound great through this thing!!".
 
I agree with all of these posts.

I personally would look into checking my room first and mic positions, or a least the portion of the room where you track the vox. I have a variety of mics myself ( none very expensive ). But I have noticed where I may have used a certain mic in my room compared to other rooms and the mics may do a total 360 as far as sound degradation.

I get pretty good results with the chain Im using now in my room. I have just been sticking with this chain to really train my ears more.

V69>VTB-1>DM24>Sonar XL2.2

I also use a Pyramid foam right behind the mic stand.

Good Luck

Malcolm
 
Thanks for all the help guys!!! but how do you pic out the right mic for a particular voice. I've tried some in the stores, and it seems like you get them home, record and you think it sounds good then and play it back and it is totaly different than you thought. Add EQ and Comp and its better but still the tone ain't home...and where I live they won't take mics back, I've tried and bitched, but unless its defective they won't do it. And they don't rent them either, I've tried that to.
As far as the room goes...it ain't perfect, but I've but up blankets on the walls to reduce bad reflection, the sound is very dry that way. Sometimes I take down the ones directly behind the mic just to get some room reflection, which works with the right song and right mic.
My voice is low but still has some higher harmonics, at least that's how it sounds to me when I sing in a room with good natural reflection, but it seems like on the recording I loose those harmonics. Maybe its just the room that bounces things back that way. Or I should just move the studio into the bathroom...
Thanks,
-k
 
Yo Radzikk! I feel your pain. Unfortunately, a signal chain can't be addressed all at once, but only in pieces. First, the talent. Then the instrument, the material, the room, the mic(s), preamp(s),cable(s), A-D convertor, the recorder, the monitors, as well as any FX/compression/EQ used. Will a $2000 mic give you the sound you seek? It might not even if every other component of the signal chain was top notch, but then again it might.
One of the advantages of a really good signal chain is that it runs you out of excuses. If I record bad sound, it's either because the sound sucked in the first place, or I screwed it up. I can't blame my signal chain, so *I* must be the problem if I can't get good sound. Expensive mics can show up every flaw of a cheap acoustic, or an inexperienced engineer.
That said, if I were going to spend $2000 to improve your mic cabinet, I'm with the 3 or 4 mic group. Not *great* mics, but proven pro studio workhorses. First, I would get a kickass dynamic mic. You can't go wrong with EV RE20, Sennheiser MD441, or Shure SM-7. For vocals, I would select the SM-7, but that's just my voice. Then I would get an all-purpose multipolar condenser in the mid price range. My favorites include Shure KSM44 and AKG C414B-ULS. I prefer the AKG on guitar, and the KSM44 on vox. I've now blown about half of your $2000.
The other half I would spend on a pair of good small diaphragm condensers, say Josephson C-42's, almost exactly $1000 at Mercenary. In general, I think that if you can't get good sound on acoustic and voice with those 4 mics, the problem isn't your mics. I'd be looking at the rest of the signal chain, especially the axe, the room, the preamp, and the A-D conversion, if it's going to digital. Good luck.-Richie
 
Rad, as an additional comment to the good advice so far, do you think you're being a little too hard on yourself?

Meaning...

Two basic choices are to do the whole thing yourself, or part/all at a professional studio.
Once you define which way you're heading, things will fall into place easier.

For example, if this is for something important, at least close mike your vocals/acoustic guitar-let alone cutting them in a better studio room.
Then have the studio properly mix/master your demo with good monitors,
and (hopefully) good ears.

Should this be somewhat of a DIY situation, if there's ANY way to find a better room to record vocals/guitar, you'll be thankful you did.
Many times local churches have rooms you could use, and a thoughtful
donation in return would surely be appreciated.

Chris

P.S. I played with the 3Q at NAMM and was impressed.
Decided to wait until the SixQ comes out though due to the
additional features like digital out, "iron" (transformer), et al.
 
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