A Little Rant. O.K. two rants, but they are related.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Light
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A lot of time, those who recommend giving it away aren't recomminding giving their own stuff away. In this discussion, we have heard a couple of examples of how persistent demand is in the face of high prices. Restaurants give discounts for kids,and amusement parks give discounts for seniors. But what amusement park would discount kids? A business offers a discount to attract customers it wouldn't have anyway. You don't discount the meat of your market. Seeding the market may be a good way to go broke.
 
I couldn't diagree more onlyfingers. I am a business owner, and have a lot of experience with marketting. One thing that someone taught me a long time ago, is that sales are not about price, it's about personal relationships. You need to identify key clients and take good care of them. They in turn will recomend you to others and bring in more business.

You don't need to go broke to take care of key clients either. Sending them a card a christmas, throw in a case or picks or some strings with a new purchase. Give away a $20 shirt (with your name on it) to anyone spending 1k or more. These are some little things that make people feel special and keep them coming back.

There are 6 shops in my area. I will go to two of them before I go to the rest only because of the owners/managers. The one sold me 2 cabs for their cost. I will go back there. The other will give me a call whenever they get something interesting in and he gave me a shirt one time. These things do matter to me. Do they do this for everyone, no. But I spend about 5-10k a year and they know that. They also know that if someone asks me where to get something, I will give them there name. I know I won't even look at Washburn guitars only because the person that carries them in my area is an idiot.

So, don't go broke giving stuff away to everyone, but take good care of your key customers.
 
onlyfingers,

How much $$$ do you think Eddie Van Halen paid for his Kramer guitars in the 80's or his Ernie Balls guitars and later Peavey guitars in the 90's?

How much $$$ do you think Kirk Hammett payed for his ESP guitars?

How much $$$ did Micheal Jordan pay for his Nike shoes?

How much $$$ do you think Shania Twain pays for her Covergirl makeup?

etc. etc. etc.

In some of these cases, NOT only were these stars or high profile players given the product for FREE... they were even PAID by the product's producer to USE the product...

Economically to the producer of the product... this is just a way to advertise their product...

Just by having high profile players play your guitar(if your a guitar builder)... is some of the best advertisment you can buy...(the cost to the builder is the material and labor)... Which, I bet, is much cheaper than taking out a full page ad in Guitar World/Guitar Player mag. and running it for 3-6 months...

Shred
 
I think a couple of you guys are confusing the issue.

It sounds a lot more like "hey, I know you from the BBS, so give me the Good-Guy deal", rather than "I'm going on national tour with the Rolling Stones and I need a new axe."

I don't think too many are gonna argue that putting freebie guitars in the hands of nationally-recognized acts is bad for your businesss.

It just seems off-topic in this instance.
 
c7sus,

I don't think I'm confusing the issue at all... Is the ranter a Nationally recognized builder (ala Gibson, PRS, Gretch, Fender).
I think not!

The point being... the national builders do give product away (sometimes even pay profile players to use product)... Why? because it sells their Product period!

What I'm saying is a smaller builder can use the same strategy on a smaller scale with High profile Local and Regional Players... to sell their guitars. (Remember the ranter IS talking about Pro Players)

Shred
 
I'm not sure Light is saying he really wants to build and sell more guitars per year than he currently does. And I can understand why.
 
I am not a custom or small-scale guitar makere, so what do I know?

I agree with Juststartingout. Sales are not about price. So Light should not worry about granting discounts to pros who come in and ask him to give them his grocery money. You can have great relationships with customers and not cut your prices.

I agree with Shredfit that having high-profile people using your instruments is good for sales. Of course, if you don't discount and the high-profile players have to buy the instruments at regular prices (or even more if they had them customized), that would be even a stronger endorsement.

If your production is peaked and it's not easy to add capacity (a good bet in a custom shop, but, then, I don't have a guitar business), who needs a glut of low-price, low profit customers?
 
c7sus said:
Light, I understand exactly where you're coming from. I think a lot of it has to do with the "Wal-Martization" of everything in general.

Folks seem to think because you can buy a DVD player for $29 that everything else in the world should be priced accordingly.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

So you caught that deal on APEX DVD's too?:D
 
I don't shop at Wal-Mart.

I'm still trying to get my VCR to flash something besides "12:00".:D

My goal as a builder would be 50-60 acoustic instruments/year, working by myself. Nothing real fancy inlay-wise, just solid instruments with great tone and either Waverly or Sloane tuners.

I'm light years away from that dream coming true! I'm too broke right now to even buy bridge blanks, much less enough stock to build a run of 6.:(

From the pics I've seen of Light's work on this BBS, I think trying to boost production beyond his current pace would probably bring tradeoffs that I'm sure someone building instruments of that caliber would just as soon avoid.

Also, I don't think the smaller-volume builders are in it for the money as their primary motivation. The folks I've met in the build and repair biz are in it more for the love of music and the satisfaction that comes from making beautiful work with your own hands.
 
If $$$ is NOT an issue what the heck was the point of the rant? If you have all the customers you need (or more than you can handle) what's the deal...

If a top player asks for a discount... tell them F@#$ You!

If you have no modivation to expand... leave it at that... Sell your guitars for whatever you think they are worth... end of story!

No sense ranting about it

Shred
 
Any product sold in this capitalist country has its share of "cheap skate" customers. Different types of cheap skates are handled different ways.

Light, you are dealing with the "elite" cheap skate. This person wants the absolute best product....but wants a "deal" on it.

I am in sales, and I can tell you how I would handle the "elite" type cheap skate:

(You say) you have great taste in intruments....the guitar you have chosen is a fine hand crafted work of art and will last you a life time. The price is only $3000.

(him) $3000?!....man, is there any way you can come down on that? $3000 is just TOO MUCH!

(you) $3000 is too much? (feed it right back to him in the form of a question)
(pause and let him talk...this kind of tells him that you are surprized by his statement, and forces him to explain it)

(him) Well, I know you have fantastic guitars...thats why I want one of them...but I can't go $3000, I can get a hell of a nice Taylor for way less than that.

(you) Oh OK, I thought you were interested in one of our hand made instuments. By the way, how much... too much ...do you feel like it is?

(him) Well like I said, I can get a nice Tayler for ....probably...$2000. So, I guess your guitar would be about $1000 to much, for me anyway.

(you) Well, im assuming that you want our guitar...because you would have already bought the Taylor, if the Taylor is what you wanted...right?

(him) yeah right.

(you) Let me ask you a question, How long do you intend to keep the guitar...i mean, you wouldn't be looking at investing in a high end instrument like this, to keep 2 or 3 years, so, how long do you think you will own it....20 years?

(him) well, yeah....I would problay keep it from now on

(you) How much playing time do you put in each day?

(him) 3 or 4 hours probably

(you) OK, well lets just say that you keep in only 20 years. The $1000 that is standing in our way to make this happen would be around $50 a year....thats 13 cents a day...which would work out to be 4 cents an hour...if you play it only 3 hours a day.

Now isn't it true that if you do business with me, that you will not have the guitar you have to settle for...but the one you WANT. The genuine hand crafted guitar of your dreams...the last guitar you will have to buy, a guitar that will gain value and last a lifetime. In other words...........personal pride in owning what you want and deserve to have,

Is that worth 4 cents....your own personal pride?

(him) uhhhhhh...duhhhhhh...yeah I see what you mean

(you) I can arrange to have it delivered...or would you rather pick it up here?

He will have to ADMIT he is a cheap skate to say his pride isn't worth a penny

Anyone that can pay $2000 for a guitar can come up with $3000, its just a matter of asking the right questions that allow him to make that determination himself.

If you say something, he doubts you, but if he says it...ITS TRUE.
 
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shredfit said:
onlyfingers,

How much $$$ do you think Eddie Van Halen paid for his Kramer guitars in the 80's
Click to expand...


Considering Kramer went bankrupt, I don't think that is the best example to use.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
juststartingout said:
I couldn't diagree more onlyfingers. I am a business owner, and have a lot of experience with marketting. One thing that someone taught me a long time ago, is that sales are not about price, it's about personal relationships. You need to identify key clients and take good care of them. They in turn will recomend you to others and bring in more business.
Click to expand...


We have a number of what you would call "key" customers. They do not get discounts, and they never ask either. But they do receive benefits. When they bring in their guitars for repair work, they jump to the front of the line. One of our regular customers is a well know fingerstyle guitarist. His guitars are always done by the next day, if it is at all possible. The same is true for a couple of other regulars. We let a couple of them use our (hand) tools to do simple adjustments themselves, which is something our insurance company would have a shit fit about. But these guys are regular customers, and friends. Another guy, who gets a guitar in every batch of guitars my father makes, has very flexible rules about when he has to pay. He has to pay full price, but we let him take his guitars before he is done paying, which we don't do for many people.

Martin made 71,115 guitars last year. We made fewer than sixty. They probably gave away fewer than 500 guitars, and most of them are not for artists, but are contest give aways and the like, and are mostly cheap guitars. This accounts for less one percent of their production. We can not possibly compete with their marketing strategies. And we don't make cheap guitars. Some small builders give away guitars, but we decided long ago not to do this. It just is not worth it (to us). The few national artists who have played our guitars have all paid full price. That is how we do business, and I think their willingness to pay full price says a lot more about our guitars than anyone who gets them for free.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light,

If you have top Pro players willing to pay full price... without any sort of discount/endorsment deal....

What the hell was the point of you rant?

Shred
 
That pedestrians should be willing to pay full price too.

Keep up!:D
 
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