A lil' something from my first "customer" :o)

  • Thread starter Thread starter WATYF
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WATYF

WATYF

...happier than you.
So... now that I've got all this new gear... everybody and their mother wants to come over and record stuff... (ok... so I'm asking them to come over just so I have something to do.. but that's beside the point). Anywhoo... a guy in my youth group wrote a praise and worship song, and we've actually performed it in the youth group a number of times, so I invited him over today and we laid tracks for it. This is the first "draft". It's not a completed work... but it's a decent draft. I didn't play a single note on this one (although I did do the BGV's)... he did all the guitars (acoustic and electric)... we did not.. I repeat... NOT use my wonderful Taylor for the acoustic parts.. instead we used his guitar, which, I believe, is some kind of entry level Epiphone... so I don't wanna hear anything from all you Taylor haters oat there.. (you know who you are... ;) )

Comments on mix... suggestions on needed accompaniments.. etc. etc. are all welcome.. it's not my song or my performance, but you can comment on that if you want.. I just don't hafta care... :p

Keep in mind that the percussion is not finished.. I know the current loop is repetitive, but it will be replaced when he can make it over here again.. and two "solos" will be added to fill the "dead space" that happens a couple times... so that will be taken care of.

One more thing.. (yes.. I am still talking.. :p ). This was my very first "real" mix. I now have actual monitors. My new Studiophile 8B's were used for this mix...

and...

my new, much debated, Entry Level Mic Pre... the DMP3.

So let me know what you think. The song is called "Breathe".

WATYF's NWR site

WATYF

(P.S. Thank God I could finally take "Every Day" off my NWR page… :D )
 
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ok i got it......on lo-fi.....sounds great so far......vox are low..nut not volume wise...what am i tryin to say.....lol....uuh....hard to make out the words....man im stumped.....now its been better.....maybe in the begining bring the guitar down cause the vox are done in a lower register.....anyway...chorus.......cool..nice tone on this vocal....harmonies sit very well......now i have listened to a few "christian",tunes on here and to be honest this one is my favorite...there is a nice feel with diff words this could be any kinda song.....cool!!....the mix isnt that far off really...maybe the begining part and the guitar down a coupla...db..on the whole thing.....better people will tell you better things...lol


excellent
jamal
 
Thanks man.. I get what you're sayin'... since he "whispers" the first verse (sorta), his vox is a little too quiet, compared to the gits.. I feel ya... :p I'll just fix that when we mess with the final mix.

WATYF
 
Hey Mr. WATYF: Have I mentioned that I have an EQ patch and script named after you? Oh yeah...think I did.

I second the low vox in the beginning. I was really trying to make it out...I REALLY TRIED.

Man, from about 1:50 on, this song totally soars. What effect is that on the strummed acoustic...like a real fast Leslie or something. Now, I'm a HUGE fan of delay and reverb, and anytime you can mix the two, I'm usually all for it...but I'm personally not crazy about that effect.

Make him sing one line over again...the first one @ 1:43...when he first goes up. Vocal clam in that line.

NICE BG VOCALS...(see, I read).

Really, it's so great from 1:50 on, I don't know why he doesn't just sing the whole thing up a notch...

Very nice (from 1:50 on :D :D :D)
 
I know what you mean... I had him re-sing the first verse a couple of times, because his first few takes were even more "low" and indistinguishable... I guess the idea is that the first part is really calm and quiet and then the dynamic changes for the second verse... I dunno.. that's just how he sang it. I tried not to attempt to "change" too much of the song... This was my experiment in just being an "engineer" and not so much a "songwriter" or "guitarist" or any of the other hats I wear. :p (Not that I really succeeded in playing the part of an engineer... :p but I tried.) I did give him tips on how to sing and how to play in order to get the best sound and what not.. but I stayed away from actually messing with the song itself. I will be pulling that vocal part up, though... but oddly enough.. it's not so quiet on my set up... I can hear him pretty good when I play it... (are you using lo-fi or hi-fi?).

And good ear on the acoustic, chris... :p I cloned the acoustic track, kept one track "clean" and in the center (offset to the left a little), and put a Leslie on the cloned track and panned it pretty hard to the right. I was just messing around with cloning options when I did it and he really liked the sound of it, so I left it... I'm kinda partial to it now, too... :p so it's gonna stay... :cool:

WATYF
 
It sounds great............i agree that the vocals could be a little lounds........also, compared to the rhythm guitars, the vocals sound a tad dry.......a little verb could let'em sit in real nice.........good work.
 
WATYF: I was listening on HiFi, then I downloaded it. Then, I converted it to a wav file and chopped off the first 1:45

:D

:D

I know what I like :D

Nice job man,
-chris
 
What kind of mic? Sounds like the singer is practically intimate with it (proximity effect) Careful compression can bring up the quieter sections and give a more "intimate" feeling without having to eat the mic.

Since I'm not a taylor owner, does that mean I can chime in on the acoustic? Some eq will help it sit better in the mix and not fight with the electric guitars. Maybe eq out all but the higher end and pick attack. Just a thought...

Anywho, the song was excellent, the performance was excellent. I would buy a polished version...
 
Your first real mix, eh? sounds good to me. Nothing to add, I think the previous comments have it covered. Nice work, keep it up :D
 
Thanks for the comments all.. :p

I'll be sure to tell him that everything after 1:45 is OK... ;) :p

powder.. that's a good idea.. I'm gonna look into putting some kinda of mild reverb on the vox just to open em up a bit.

JR... the acoustic, the electric (running through his little crate amp), and the vocals were all done with the C-1. I used to use my Oktava MC12 on the acoustic, but we did extensive testing with mics and positioning and found that the acoustic sounded much better using the C-1. And yes... he was being "intimate" with it.. :p cause I told him to... :cool: I love in your face, up front vocals... and out of all the mixes I've done so far, I like the vocal "sound" on this song the best, simply because it is so right-up-in-your-face like... :p It's actually a combination of close proximity and compression... he wasn't eating the mic or anything,.. but he was pretty close up on it.

Another reason I use close-proximity is because I don't have a sound-proofed rec' room yet. Bleed over from outside/my computer's hum/room noises/etc. will be an issue sometimes, so the closer he is on the mic, the lower I can keep the levels, and the easier it is for me to compress the track without picking up unwanted noises. Someday, though, I'll actually have a practical place to record... :p

WATYF
 
very mainstream sound for christian music, i like it!! but those bgv's jeesh!!! that person should not quit their day job!!!:D ;)


what??? you were looking for mix comment's??
:p

peace

rick
 
O.K... I put up a remix using the suggestions.... I tried to separate the lead vocal better (I dunno if it actually worked.. but I tried.. :p) and I threw a little verb on the vox...

and... as an added bonus... I put in....






percussion... :D whoo hooo!!!

This is my very first attempt at adding any percussion/drums, of any kind, in any song I've ever done,... so let me know if I over did it... :p I've got a little bit of everything in there... shaker... brush work.. cymbal swells.. blah blah blah...

Next will be to add the lead git parts that fill the "dead space". I'll repost again when I get that done.

WATYF
 
Seriously...I'm gonna rip into this song...

I would have handed him your Taylor (that is if you let other people play it). This acoustic sound is kinda substandard...and the leslie sound is too warbly to be effective...more a distraction. The vocal sound also is weird...like a weirdo radio shack mic or something...even if it is the "famed" C1. I didn't like the sound...which is kinda a suprise actually. The lyrics are also VERY hard to understand, I don't like having to just "hone in" on the lyrics, just so I can understand them.

Production wise...You need more of the ear candy you got going ...the panned backwards cymbal...and stuff like that. Don't over do it...but some more, at least. The guitar strumming gets a little old too. Kinda a sign of a (learning) acoustic playing/songwriter, creating a production. I'm not too wild about the "open" chording stuff, that just keeps going on too. Gimme some "fretted notes"...eh? Also, the same chord sequence seems to serve all the different song sections too.

You've done better in the past, and with your new monitors, this should be even better...

sorry...I feel like such a butt-wipe telling you that you got a sucky sound with your new mic pre, the C1, and your new monitors.. but, I figure....you can just quit music then, and give me your Taylor
:eek:

but.... I felt candy coating a response would be a waste of time ...both yours and mine....
:( ;)
 
Is it just me, or does anyone else feel like you're part of Mix's family watching his dog grow up...? I swear... one of these days we're gonna look back and say, "Mix,.. I remember when your avatar was only this big." :D

O.K... so now on to the song ripping... a couple things I agree with.. some I don't... First off,... yes.. I tried to get him to use my Taylor... but for some reason he just wanted to use his guitar... (much to my chagrin). Second,.. I agree aboot the repetitive, non-stop open chording.. yes.. I wish he woulda done some change ups, but like I said at first... this was a "mixing only" project... I didnt' try to change his song.. just record it. I also couldn't do much aboot his tendency to mumble the lyrics... heck.. I've been mixing this thing for two days straight and I still can't understand some of the words... :p :cool:

One thing that may help you understand... he started out, musically (if you can call it that :p ) playing in a punk band. Now,... while he has come a long way since I first heard him... (and I do mean a loooooong way.. :p ) he still has some very "punk" tendencies.. so that may help explain his "style".

Now... where I disagree is the over-all "sound". While I think that some of my past stuff has been more likable to my own tastes... I think that, sonically, this mix is, by far, the best mix I've been able to fumble my way through. I liked the vocal sound I got outta him better than any sound I've ever been able to produce by myself... (but that just may be because my voice sucks... :p ) Although, I may agree with you on the current vocal sound.. I tried to throw some verb on it in this mix and I think I may have screwed it up more than helped it... I think I'm gonna take that off.

And darn it!!... that Leslie is stayin'... and that's final.... :p :D


Anywhoo.. thanks for the blunt critique.. I wouldn't expect anything less...

but sorry... you're still never getting my Taylor.... :p


:cool:

WATYF

(P.S... I'll PM you when I get the new vocal mix up and you can let me know if it still sounds like Radio Shack... :p )
 
WATYF said:
Another reason I use close-proximity is because I don't have a sound-proofed rec' room yet. Bleed over from outside/my computer's hum/room noises/etc. will be an issue sometimes, so the closer he is on the mic, the lower I can keep the levels, and the easier it is for me to compress the track without picking up unwanted noises. Someday, though, I'll actually have a practical place to record... :p
WATYF
Click to expand...

WATYF, does your C1 has the bass roll-off/-10dB pad? if so, have you try them out to solve your room noise issues....

I'll be receiving my C1 soon, and like you I have a little room noise issues (mainly is the PC noise only), I was hoping the C1 pad will help me minimise this issues. :)
 
Hey Watyf,
........Yea, major probs w/ the lead vocs. They sound muffled in a big way, especially in the low verses. Maybe stripping away a shitload of low frq. eq would be a quick, cheap, and easy way to help. It just sounds like he was way too close to the mike IMO, but it sounds like you already know that. The higher vocs sound much better. Also, a little more compression might even him out a little bit more. Sounds like he's going for the "Staind" thing, which is cool. I like the song....... nice melody, and I like where youre going with it. A descernable bass guitar might be nice. Stick with it!!
:)




g
 
WATYF, does your C1 has the bass roll-off/-10dB pad?
Click to expand...
Uh... oh yeah... it does... LOL... you know.. I almost forgot those were there... :p I did use the low cut on my DMP3 pre for certain takes (and it does help), but I never thought to use the C-1's similar "features". In any event... I must be the only one aroond here, but I really do like close proximity vocals... that suits my taste better than more distant, dynamic vocal sounds... but hey.. to each his own.... (at least, when it comes to music.. :p )

But I do agree that on the first verse he's way to "close"... I've stripped every low frequency I can think of... :p and it's still too muddled... maybe I'll have him retake that when he comes over next...

thanks again all for the comments.

WATYF
 
ok...here's what you gotta do...if you're gonna keep the leslie sound...AND not give me your Taylor...

Can you get the leslie sound in stereo??...and pan the dry guitar down the middle. Finding just the 'effected' gtr off to the side seemed to make things lob-sided for me. And...of course if you can adjust the speed...like a real leslie...that would be waaay cool. AND....AND...just use it judiciously...in special spots...and not ALL the way thru the whole song...

the mic sound...it sounded un-natural to me...for the best description I can give. It sounded like someone singing over a mic (which of course he was doing....duh!!!)...but most decent vocal tracks don't have that 'electronic' sound to it... it was more like a mic in a PA system...than a studio mic....I guess. I'm guessing that maybe the proximity effect on the C1 isn't as pleasing ...and almost tends to sound "off axis".....at least to me. And I usually flunk these mic A/B tests too!!

Interesting that you think this mix is better than some of your previous posts. I tend to disagree.... hhhmm... I [actually] liked your singing...and it was recorded good...even if you're a drummer!! And your Taylor sound just rocked too..
 
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