a job in sound engeneering

  • Thread starter Thread starter rib
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rib - i only have a couple of comments, and i hope you find them usefull.
when i was very young i was lucky and learnt some basic recording
techniques from som quite old but extremely nice audio engineers.
(ive been learning for eons. it never stops.)they were extremely kind to me.
comsidering i was so very young and stupid.
i would suggest if you get a chance, to intern for a time under such people if you can find them. its very easy to tell the ones that will help you learn.
ie: if they treat you like a human being like i was treated then those are the ones you want. suck everything up that you can. however if you come across some that want you to be nothing more than a serf; stay away.
the funny thing i found in this business, and i found the same at AES
shows was that the really knowledgeable ones to a man were such nice people. just as harvey is on here.
 
Keep smiling!

OneRoomStudios said:
Man that's depressing....something has to change. I'll stay optimistic to make up for everyone else :)
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It is depressing, but these are the pro's talking about the business, I really wish it was the other way around, but it's reality.

The recording schools are spitting loads of graduated students, SAE has built a brand new and huge building in Amsterdam and organizes 'open days' where young guys can drool over SSL consoles, ProTools HD gear and fancy microphones.

I get lots of ex recording school students, applying for a job. Some of them has sent their CV to every pro studio in the country, but there are very few jobs and many ex students right now in my country.

This situation is world wide and it's not getting any better soon I suppose.

I wonder what Harvey has to say about this.

I really love my job and the music and I'm an optimistic guy, but these are the facts.
 
hmmmm,
long exhausting hours til the wee hours of the morning.
small pay
no health insurance
intermittent work
no life when you are working
and anybody can afford good gear now so everyone is doing it.

and your thinking about going to school for this?

Go into plumbing, they make better money
 
But equipment is only half (or less depending on who's talking) of recording....Skill is what "seperates the men from the boys" so to speak. By going to school I'm trying to gain some skills that will at the very least set me above the average home recordist. Backed up by my college degrees, expirience (I'll have more by then) and general likability (hey, I can hope), I might just have a shot in hell of getting the dream job.....right?


Man there's nothing like having your dreams crushed....
 
OneRoomStudios said:
But equipment is only half (or less depending on who's talking) of recording....Skill is what "seperates the men from the boys" so to speak. By going to school I'm trying to gain some skills that will at the very least set me above the average home recordist. Backed up by my college degrees, expirience (I'll have more by then) and general likability (hey, I can hope), I might just have a shot in hell of getting the dream job.....right?
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I think it will be more about what you, personally, make of it.

Skill is a good thing to have, but education is only part of the puzzle. Showing up for class and going through the motions isn't enough. Be the best guy in the class. Work the hardest on your assignments. Study harder than anyone else in your classes . . . volunteer for more work . . . ask more questions. Be the annoying teacher's pet that everyone hates, basically. :D

This has got to be an all-consuming obsession for you.

Like with anything in life, I think if you have that, then the rest will fall in to place, and you'll know success one way or another . . . in recording or in anything.

Finally . . . and this is some good advice, so listen up . . . but if you have other non-audio related skills that a studio could use, then you might find some more doors open for you. Namely, if you can do some things that a studio owner or engineer would need or find valuable.

Like let's assume, for instance, that there's this studio owner. Chances are, he's probably quite an audio geek, so his wardrobe isn't so hot. This is just a given. Now let's say that you, the recent audio grad, were an expert fashion consultant. You sort of bill yourself as "the brilliant up and coming audio prodigy who has a damn fine fashion flare." You can even give their wives makeovers and that kind of thing.

Someone's bound to find that useful enough to hire you, by God.

:D Alright, I guess that was pretty lame humor. But I hope you get where I'm going with this. Like let's suppose you came upon a kickass studio that just had an atrocious web site that needed a lot of work. Now let's pretend that you're an audio engineer grad who happens to be a whiz of a web site designer. Suppose you knew how to tinker with various recording gear . . . on top of havnig a specialty like being a whiz at tuning drums or something. Oh, and also have some serious sales experience and were willing to cold-call and network for new business. Perhaps you have some carpentry skills and can help them make improvements to their facility.

Now I realize that's not entirely realistic, but let's assume you had maybe two of the skills mentioned. Just two of 'em. It's going to be tough for someone like that to get passed up. Someone can use you . . . someone might not be able to live without you. I guess what I'm saying is to look for other non-audio qualities that might differentiate you and make you attractive.
 
Dot's closing comment says it all:

The only reason to engineer is because when you step inside a nice studio full of gear it hits you where you live so deeply that you become single-minded and want to do nothing else. Anything less than that — take another road.

So true..........
 
chessrock said:
Most of the people you work with are people who's music you would NEVER be caught dead listening to.
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I know exactly what you mean! The above statement very much applies to me and I write all the music I record! :D
 
what i find sad , very sad in fact is the fact that even some seasoned AE's (which i'm not) with big studios are having a hard time earning a living from what i hear through the grapevine. so i can understand why new potential entrants are having an even harder time.
if i can comment , much as i love the old songs of the 60's thru mid 80's - the rock era. and the amazing engineering that went into them,
this is all that big radio wants to play often, certainly where i live which is blocking new artists from being heard , and the young aggressive new entrants. in a way its stagnation.
sadly i feel investing in a big studio these days is not a good one.
which is why i keep to a pretty lean operation, buy a lot of used equipment and build my own mic preamps. to keep costs down.
in another few years i wonder if a solid state recording studio will be inside your new box of cereal as a giveaway that you buy at the food store.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I love recording, money is not a concern for me. I want to be able to have a car (i don't care if it keeps breaking down) and pay the rent. I can eat "esay mac" macaroni and cheese for the rest of eternity. I am only 16, and in school we are all being pressured about college and our future and all that other stuff, but even if i go to a high priced university I still will want to end up in a studio, wether it be a top of the line sparkly thing, or an egg carton covered wall in my basement with an 8 track.

Thanks for all the replies, i will check out the links that were posted later, but i have to get to class. bye.
 
If you have clients you will have a better chance of scoring a that big studio AE job you are seeking... start making your contacts now.
 
Looks like that dream is gone. Heh.

I can't afford it as it is. There are alot of people trying to record in my area already. Meh.
 
The important thing is to never forget the business aspect of things. You have to be constantly selling, selling, selling yourself and your facilities. Also, learn to love bad musicians and their crappy bands because they are your lifeblood; the studio I work at is 100% booked all the time with the phone ringing off the hook. Sure, it's a bunch of rappers that are all talentless calling (mainly) but it is WORK.

If someone is hurting your business by opening up a home studio meet with them--convince them that they can use your facilities and you'll split the take with them 50/50--AND they can charge your 40/hour rates or whatever. GET THEM ON YOUR SIDE!

Trust me, unless your studio sucks you'll have gear they'd love to record with to move to the next level.

Network, network, network. Educate the masses. Don't just TELL them that they can't get the quality they desire from Joe Blow Digi002 guy in a basement but SHOW them. Let bands stop by your facility for a few hours to lay down some tracks for free... to taste the difference (only do this with better bands though). Realize that this is a JOB and like all jobs it can really, really suck.

Get on the phone. Make a list of your clients and when it looks like you are going to have downtime start calling them up to see if they want to take advantage of some discounted studio time. GET CREATIVE.

My opinion is that for too many years too many people had it made, delivering so-so product at ludicrous rates and MAKING the home recording revolution necessary. Time to wake up and get off your fat duffs. Instead of waiting around crying about this and that go out and recruit some people. If you expect people to come to you in the real world, you are sadly mistaken.

Myself I came from a white collar, dog eat dog business world where people got laid off in a heartbeat and were forgotten about by the time the 2:00 VP board meeting came around. If you can't produce results you're eliminated... heck, even sometimes if you can produce results you're eliminated anyways.

I have no pity for places that are up to their ears in debt either. If you can't afford to pay your bills you can't afford to be in business. Should have passed up that vintage automated console, or did you really need to have Urei compressors on all 48 channels? Streamline is the key.

That and get the business.

Myself, I'm just beginning the process for a small business loan to start a studio. I've heard the horror stories and I've seen a few as well. Most of the people it happened to were fundementally lazy or had no social skills, or expected people to come to them. Well, it's not like that anymore.

When I hear about a band that wants to record themselves, or have their cousin Billy Joe Bubba do it I see them as a future client, because you KNOW that it is going to suck. Just keep their data and give them a call a few weeks later. Heck, I've gotten mixing and mastering gigs from doing that as well.

Break into new markets. When a new "style" of music looks like it is starting to break find the best band in the area and cut a 3-4 song demo with them for free and make it sound AMAZING. A bunch of the other bands in that style will hear it and if they dig it they will call you. I did that 2 years ago with emo bands and now I have 20 clients that are emo bands. When emo becomes passe they will still record with you.

Get creative. Realize sometimes you have to give to get.

Engineering is only part of it. In fact, I'd say it's only 50%. A lot of people can run circles around me as an engineer and that's fine, and they will have way better equipment than me... that's cool to. But very few can match me and my mouth once I get on a roll--I am excellent at selling myself to clients and getting repeat customers because I listen and understand what they are going for.

Then again, a lot of my clients are into more underground/independent music styles and are loathe to go to a 'big big studio' because they are afraid the aging, grumpy, out of touch engineer is going to make them sound like Van Halen.
 
surprisingly, there are not many big studios in any sort of realistic distance of me. one of them is semi home based anyway. my old band went to a studio and paid £200 for a day in which 3 tracks were recorded, and in my opinion the engineer sucked. i know you cant make crap sound good, but i can say it didn't do us justice. but still i will remember going there because he had all the equipment, the huge desk, it just looked pro. and its far easier to go to a studio and just play and then you're done than doing it at home and messing around and mixing it all yourselves. from the demos that ive done, the home recorded ones were a huge stress and took months to complete. when we paid for it, it was done in a day and the quality of the sound was better, even if mixed badly. i think people would genuinly prefer to pay for their recordings and play in a big studio than sit at home for hours infront of the computer trying to get the right thud out of their kick drum.
 
I wish I could disagree with all the pessimism but the recording business does suck. I've been working in the music/film buisness off and on for about 15 years and it's tough. You can make a meager living doing live production but it's very long hours and pretty crappy pay. After 20yrs you might be able to command $25/hour. Even the TV stations pay crap for tech guys. A cameraman only makes about $10-15/hour.

Things have gotten so bad I've resorted to DJ'ing at strip bars. It's a cheezy gig and the pay isn't that great but at least I'm getting more pussy then a lead singer :D
 
Part of what is choking out studios is technology. Anyone can get enough gear to make nice sounding demos for less than the cost of recording at a studio and they will own the gear for many more "projects". SO, instead of a band scraping up $1000 to get their demo done at a studio they just go get a recorder and a chinese mic and away they go.

It's the same in the print industry. There was a time when you had to go the print shop to get your business card and letter head and your graphics. Now, you can do it from you computer and get acceptable results. SO in the 80's quick printing was very lucrative, now it's not.

VCR repair used to be a business. Why would you pay someone to fix a $50-$100 VCR? CD player repair. CD players used to be very, very expensive, now you just replace it.

Repairing computers is going the same direction. It's cheaper to buy a new one than fix an older one.

Then again, a lot of my clients are into more underground/independent music styles and are loathe to go to a 'big big studio' because they are afraid the aging, grumpy, out of touch engineer is going to make them sound like Van Halen.
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That's funny I like that.

Keep in mind it doesn't matter how may clients you have the only thing that matters is how many PAYING clients you have.

I believe the industry will simply continue in it's trend, engineers are like graphic artists (anyone with a computer is one nowadays).
 
slobbermonster said:
Part of what is choking out studios is technology. Anyone can get enough gear to make nice sounding demos for less than the cost of recording at a studio and they will own the gear for many more "projects". SO, instead of a band scraping up $1000 to get their demo done at a studio they just go get a recorder and a chinese mic and away they go.
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That's a load of BS.

If you're the type of engineer whose studio can't beat a measly 1000 bucks of gear within 1000 bucks of studio time you deserve to go out of business.

Let's face it--the home recording and DIY movement means that AE's have to offer superior product. More than half of the local studios around where I live are ran by old school "engineers" that put zero effort into their clients' music except to press record. Those clowns need to go out of business.
 
I gave a short quick answer early on in this thread but here’s the real problem’s with the recording industry.

Every December 25th Parents will buy a new computer to help Son/Daughter with School.
Now computers are getting to the point where they can pull off a half way decent recording without crashing.
So instead of doing homework on the new computer, the youngster decides he/she would like to be a recording engineer.
Circumstances and price has made it almost free for them at this point.
Parent money buys computer.
Grandparent money buys other accessories.
Software is free if you steel it.
China is giving away recording mics.
Home recording pages like this are now plentiful on the net with tons of free information.
They can record friends for free because they have no over-head.

As cool as home recording info pages are, they still remove the smoke and mirrors.
If there were thousands of web pages of how to do every magic trick in the book, then we wouldn’t need magicians either.
If twenty years ago I asked a simple question like how to record a kick drum the answer would have been “Put a mic inside”. These days you’ll get fifty different opinions that are mostly good advice.

The life expectancy of most bands is barely long enough to record one project much less two. So they record for free and poof their gone. Resulting in nobody gaining anything.

At this point it would take a small miracle for studios to survive the flood.
If the kids had to buy ten thousand dollars worth of gear just to get started as well as learn from a School how to record, the industry might survive.

The only studios that will be standing when it bottoms out completely is the guy that started twenty years ago and had several commercial accounts like Wal-Mart, McDonalds etc. with Rappers to fill in the gapes.

The future of recording studios will be Jingles and Rap. Learning to write and record Jingles will help keep you in this industry. And if you can mix a fat rap you’ll be the rap man.

My studio went from one of the most successful home studios ANYWHERE to almost nothing after this last Christmas.
Unfortunately I’m predicting the next Christmas will be even worse.

If you plan on attending a recording School anyway, you might want to do it soon because Recording Schools will be the next to go. Why will we need a career building School if there is no career!? A citification in Pro-Tools won’t get you a job at Burger King these days much less a career as an engineer.

C
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Time to wake up and get off your fat duffs. Instead of waiting around crying about this and that go out and recruit some people. If you expect people to come to you in the real world, you are sadly mistaken.
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Very well-put. I'm hearin' ya, brother.
 
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