A Good Condenser Mic For Less Then 150??

[littledog]

even though it would be nearly impossible to tear the diaphram by spl fron a voice, the air pressure from a rapper can, plus the excessive spit will damage the diaphram beyond repair.

You'll notice a couple of posts ago I included the proviso: "assuming some sort of pop/wind screen".

With that as a given, I think the "air pressure/spit" issue is moot.

I have no problem (or fear) setting up any of my expensive mics on rap projects. As long as we're not talking hand-held, the chances of equipment damage haven't seemed any greater than on any other kind of music project, and there's something about that big 24k gold Lawson L47mp that seems to resonate with the vibe of a typical Rap session.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Littledog, I was having a moment of insanity, and just thinking of the high SPL levels thats all...

Admittedly, Tearing isn't the best choice of word, but, as far as I know, on a condensor, usually one side is +48 and the other is ground (that changes with distance)

Surely, when clipping, a short circuit is induced accross the capsule, and with is being such a thin piece of metal (gold spluttered probably) it's possible that permanent damage may occur to the capsule...

When I said tear, I was thinking like a wire fuse, but - you can catch my train of thought, no?

Maybe we should ask Harvey if any damage is done by clipping a condensor to the extreme?

cheers

R

A condenser mic is actually made up of 3 elements, not two:

There's the gold sputter, a thin film of electrically conductive gold, deposited onto a:

Mylar membrane which flexes and acts as an insulator, to support the gold film and insulate it from the:

Backplate, which is the support mechanism for the whole thing. There is usually a 40 micron (or so) round spacer inserted between the Mylar diaphragm and the backplate, acting as a forced gap to keep them separated and to let the diaphragm move freely.

It is possible to bottom out the diaphragm with an air blast, so that the diaphragm touches the backplate, which results in the ugly popping you hear when you use a "P" or "b" sound up close to the mic, but the Mylar acts as an insulator to prevent shorting out the 48 volts.

It is possible with prolonged air blasts (or contaminates on the diaphragm) to cause the 48Volts to arc thru the Mylar and vaporize the gold in one tiny spot, eventually causing pinholes in the gold, but it shouldn't have any major effect on the sound, except perhaps over a very long period.

The biggest problem is the possibility of the Mylar diaphragm stretching over time, creating sags and wrinkles. The diaphragm must be tensioned absolutely perfectly to maintain smooth response and avoid creating unwanted spurious resonances in the audible range.

 

[H2oskiphil]

A condenser mic is actually made up of 3 elements, not two:

There's the gold sputter, a thin film of electrically conductive gold, deposited onto a:

Mylar membrane which flexes and acts as an insulator, to support the gold film and insulate it from the:

Backplate, which is the support mechanism for the whole thing. There is usually a 40 micron (or so) round spacer inserted between the Mylar diaphragm and the backplate, acting as a forced gap to keep them separated and to let the diaphragm move freely.

It is possible to bottom out the diaphragm with an air blast, so that the diaphragm touches the backplate, which results in the ugly popping you hear when you use a "P" or "b" sound up close to the mic, but the Mylar acts as an insulator to prevent shorting out the 48 volts.

It is possible with prolonged air blasts (or contaminates on the diaphragm) to cause the 48Volts to arc thru the Mylar and vaporize the gold in one tiny spot, eventually causing pinholes in the gold, but it shouldn't have any major effect on the sound, except perhaps over a very long period.

The biggest problem is the possibility of the Mylar diaphragm stretching over time, creating sags and wrinkles. The diaphragm must be tensioned absolutely perfectly to maintain smooth response and avoid creating unwanted spurious resonances in the audible range.

Ya know....I was gonna say that, but Harvey beat me to it...

 

[Rochey]

I guess this is what happens when you try to apply standard electronic engineering principles to something that you only know 80% about.

akkk... I guess someone already thought of the shorting thing

Okay, I feel a bit of a prick now... sheesh - But I guess we all learnt something from it.

Thanks Harvey - Much appreciated.

 

[Mark H.]

Don't beat yourself up, Rochey. It's not the SPL from speaking, it's the plosive sound effects of Rap with the lips held close to the mic that'll do the damage. Press your lips together, tighten your diaphragm, and release your breath onto your fingertips. You'll feel a LOT of pressure! It's why blowguns (and trumpets) work as well as they do.

Mark H.

 

[Dot]

I've recorded a good hundred Rap sessions in the late '80's and early '90's. We mostly used a U87 w/ a pop filter. Never had a problem w/ the mic.

Sofisticated, I'd urge you try and add another $50 to your $150 and get a Studio Projects C1. Comes w/ a shockmount and is the hottest $200 mic available. Very much like a U87. Read the reviews on the C1. Great mic. Nuthin' touches it in that price range.

 

[Gidge]

i think the Marshall MXLv67 touches it,and for alot less $$$.....to my uneducated ears, they sound practically identical.....

of course the C1, which is an awesome mic too, now has the bass rolloff and pad. but so does the v93M which is $149 with the shockmount.....

 

[lazyboy]

Just a thought:

I can't see any reason to be concerned with rupture or damage to a diaphragm from recording rap vocals.

Yes, it is true that a lot of rappers hold the mic right to their mouths--in a live situation. I would think it is your responsibility as an engineer to educate any recording client about the way of doing things in a studio environment, ya dig?

If you're letting vocal plosives distort, you've got problems in technique that a simple change of mic ain't gonna fix.

 

[Sofisticated]

thank yall for the input......i hopefully got more money on the way so imma save and then get a mxl v93 with the shock mount pop filter and a stand......thanks again.........hey btw


what other things are needed for the mic to work properly and effectivly.....(i.e. best quality and stuff)...

 

[reddish]

Sure pg 81 is allright for under $150.


h

 

[chessparov]

Sofisticated, you could just get a Studio Projects B1 for around
$80, then score an M-Audio Audio Buddy for under $80.
Not the best mic pre, yet pretty decent from what end users
report. (has phantom power BTW)

Chris

 

[Sofisticated]

thanks chess........

 

[chessparov]

Sure thing.
Best of luck on your selection(s)

Chris

 

[dtb]

of the mics recomended in this thread, any of them good for acoustic guitar?

dtb

 

[Sofisticated]

dtb im hearin that the shure sm-57 is a very good mic if u have the right preamp.....for acoustical instraments as well as everything inbetween............and the price is only 80$........preatty good considering its for that price.........