A general but important issue.

N

NationalSandwic

New member
Hello everyone

I've not been on this forum in ages and ages, but I've always found it useful and informative. I am not an audiophile or technophile; I am a composer, performer and producer, ie I am concerned with musical content, not audio content. When I was frequenting this BBS last I was something of a curious amateur, but now I find myself in a position where I am setting up my own serious project studio (for work, not as a hobby.)

I already have software and hardware and a mixing desk that I feel comfortable with, so the last step is mics and monitors.The problem I am having is that despite my (admittedly somewhat-limited) knowledge of studio gear and techniques, I'm finding myself in a complete whirlwind of indecision regarding selecting microphones and monitors. I've been reading reviews all over the place, talking to pro studio owners I know, reading publications on microphone technology, looking at frequency response graphs, cataloguing specs and prices and none of it seems to bring any clarity to the buying process. My only real guide is my budget, which is around $2000.

It's hardly a huge budget, but I should think it will get me to a place where I can begin working. To give you an impression, the mics I am looking at are things like Rode NT2000's, and monitors like the Samson Resolv 80a's (though, I don't really like those). As a start, I'm thinking of getting a couple of large diaphragm condensers, and a couple of small diaphragm.

Everything looks so similar, it seems impossible to make a decision which route to go. Of course, I want to get the best possible gear within my budget range. Is it worth going through all the stress and angst to make a choice? Are the units in this price range really THAT different? I don't have the opportunity to test mics and monitors before buying them - it's not done in South African - and I feel a bit like I'm choosing by pulling names out of a hat.

I'm not asking for gear recommendations (though they'd be welcome!). I am asking for advice or feelings about what the sensible approach is to making these decisions.

Thanks for reading!

Anthony
 
What is teh source. You mention being a composer, are you recording strings, horns? Or standard electric rock stuff?

Daav
 
Hi, thanks for your replies!

I'm working on a project at the moment that might require string and horn sections, but I'm thinking of taking that to another studio for the acoustic space - I'm also not sure I'll be set up in time to be able to record them myself. Though, I'm sure that a couple of condensors can handle sections like that, if I get them in time. (No?)

With regard to my own work, I am probably going to be working with minimal instrumentation (vocal, acoustic instruments (nylon-string guitar, steel string guitar, mandolin, cello, autoharp, double bass etc.), wind things like french horn, clarinet, harmonica, melodica, accordian, possible electric guitars and basses in the future, amplified synths, lo-fi drums). =) I know that doesn't seem minimal, but that's really a near full spectrum of my instrument option. I don't see myself using all of them and certainly not many at once. I also do work with electronic elements (samplers, synths, drum machines, loops) on the machine... I may want to amplify and record those, but I also may not.

I definitely want to be as versatile as possible. My mixing desk is on a simple Spirit Powerstation, which is really a powered mixer, but all I really need are the pre-amps. There are 8 mono XLR/Line in's and 2 stereo line in's.

I'll definitely want to record drum kits at some point in the future, probably for rock bands, which means serious tracking and not the lo-fi sound that I'm currently keen on for my own work. Some how I don't think the drum mic kits will cut it, but I've read good things about the Audix set. My audio interface only has 4 inputs, which is fine unless I'm recording drums, in which case I'd mix in the desk (overhead mix, snare, kick, hi-hat?) then send to the interface. I've spdif inputs available too, but no spdif out of the mixer. Also, hopefully, other jobs will come in which will allow an audio-interface upgrade.

I once got really annoyed watching a 'producer' (recording engineer, more like) working on my friends' project. He spent an hour setting up 5 mics to record a short electric guitar solo (one room mic, three on the amp cabinet, one on the guitar) while the band sat around watching their limited time and budget evaporate ... then he had to mix it! I'm really not into that approach. I want to get a great sound, but I want to do that by getting great performances from capable musicians with decent instruments.

Besides, I can't help thinking that this is only one part of the whole process (an important one, but it's not the be-all and end-all). What about the room the recording is done in, and the room it is mixed in, and mastered in, and what about the space it is finally listened to in, and what about the ears that listen to it? I'm quite certain the frequency response of my ear is different to yours or anyone elses, so I can't see the point in going nuts over the frequency response graphs of microphones - but I'm still going nuts over them :)
 
NationalSandwic said:
I am not an audiophile or technophile; I am a composer, performer and producer, ie I am concerned with musical content, not audio content.
Click to expand...


This would probably explain why you're having such a difficult time with what would otherwise be considered rather rudimentary decisions.

My initial feeling is that you should first put some heavy consideration in to what you're trying to do. You're a musician and a composer, foremost, am I correct? Why do you want to change this and veer off in to a whole different discipline in the process? Are you unhappy as a musician? Does being a musician/composer somehow not challenge you enough, and/or does it not induce enough confusion in your life as it is? :D

From what I can gather from your post, I take it you own several musical instruments, correct? Did you fret as much over the purchasing decisions for those pieces of gear, like you are with recording equipment? Or did you allow your instincts and good judgement to lead you towards your purchases?

My advice, if it means anything, would be to answer the question: What is it about music performing or composing that isn't satisfying you, to the point that you are seeking out a whole new discipline wrought with an entirely different set of challenges and learning curves that will likely distract you a great deal from your root passion, which is music, I'm assuming (?)

If you can answer that question for yourself honestly ... then I think the rest of your answers will start coming to you a lot easier and with less effort. My fear, right now, based on your post, is that you might not have the patience required to seriously get in to engineering. If you can't understand the value in taking time to experiment with mic positioning and/or mixing, as was the case with your friends' guitar solo, then I'm afraid you might struggle with the whole engineering thing. Another big, big red flag for me is that one sentence I quoted you on. A natural Audio Engineer ... would never, ever, ever, be caught dead in a million years saying the words: "I am concerned with music content - not audio content."

That would be akin to a doctor saying he wasn't concerned with how healthy people are, or an auto mechanic saying he wasn't concerned with how well cars run. :D

Good luck with your decisions.
 
Nothing to do with buying stuff.

Take this however you want, it's probably a question you should ask yourself.

Why put 2k into recording gear, if you want to be a producer/musician?

I don't get it. You've got a band that thinks your opinion is going to give them a gold record, so hire out a studio, get an engineer, and record it. The band pays for all of that, last time I checked.

You should spend your 2k to network with bands so that you can eventually get producing gigs.

$.02
 
Hello again,

I understand and appreciate your points. To be clear, I am not making a move to becoming a sound or recording engineer. I am setting up this studio as part of a production company I've just formed (most of my work has actually been in film scoring). The intention is that I will be able to use it to produce saleable works, and at worst to produce excellent demos and guide tracks which can be re-recorded at better studios. If the project works and money is coming in regularly, I fully intend to hire an engineer - I have no delusions of being a sound or recording engineer, and though I'm very keen to learn more, I far prefer working with professionals. So, at the moment, if I need to record a large string section or brass section then I intend to go to large studios to do that.

This studio is a project studio, and part of a business venture. If I just have to record spoken word voice overs for a while to raise capital (pays very well in Johannesburg!), then I'm fine with that. I definitely have patience (I also work as a guitar and theory teacher - no room for the impatient there! :)) but my problem with the engineer (who calls himself a producer) I mentioned was that the end result of those sessions was a recording which sounded very good, but was musically weak. My feeling is that you can record with a thousand microphones, get a beautiful, infinitely-tweakable sound and still not generate a good product - you can also get a beautiful sound recording with just a single mic. He could have done something far more straight-forward, coached the guitarist's performance a bit to get the sound he wanted, and had more time to focus on the music of the project - this is what people ultimately buy recordings for. Sure, if the recording quality is terrible, if the mix is weak, etc., they probably won't buy it either... but you can have the most beautiful recording of weakly composed, weakly performed music and it will certainly not sell. Now, I'm not chasing the buck here...I'm just trying to point out that chasing - and even finding - the perfect sound doesn't mean you're going to be producing good product. Joe Audience can't hear a little more presence in the 14k range, or that the mic slopes off too quickly in the low end... he hears music - he's going to listen to a crappy mp3 version of it anyway! :). Of course, I still want the best sound I can get, but I am also aware that I can worry about that forever and end up not recording anything.

The situation in South Africa is a tricky one... when it comes to bands, I've seen excellent, mainstream-radio-playlisted, signed bands walk away from popular venues after a show with R25 for each member (about $4). Bands can't afford studios, producers and engineers - they get what they can and a lot gets done on the base of friendships and charitable connections. Gear is expensive as it is all imported over long distances and pretty heavily taxed - electric guitars are generally at least double the price as sold on musiciansfriend.com. The media industry in Johannesburg is built on commercials, where huge budgets allow for very high production value (I'm talking about ~$150 000 budgets for 30 second spots.)

Anyway, I don't want to go on about how my situation is 'special', because it probably isn't. I suppose my ultimate question here is how can I build something that would be able to produce quality products, where an engineer isn't at a complete loss for mics? In all seriousness, I'm not going to pull my hair out over a little bit off hiss at this stage (I can't afford to!). I will pull my hair out over muddy, watery sound though.
The other (more general) question I started with was: are microphones in the price and quality range of the Rode NT2000 just toys, or are they respectable, professional tools that can actually do the job just fine?
I've also got ideas to use the mics I buy to perform live (just me and my nylon string guitar), I don't know if that is out of the question or not.
And of course, I'm giving this all room to grow slowly until I have a studio that I can really be proud of, a space where I can do my thing, engineers can do their thing, and good stuff can happen. I need to start of with the back-up of faith in the gear I buy... and build slowly as I can.

Thanks for reading! :)

(And, yes, when I bought my guitar I also fretted over my choice - one tends to do that when spending $5000 on an instrument! :) On cheaper gear, no, I don't fret so much and tend to follow my gut. I sort of feel the way I do when looking at electric guitars - completely unable to decide on an instrument because they're all dependent on all sorts of other upgradable factors (amps, cables, pickups, pots)...)
 
I'm just going to give you a start regarding the mic selection... The AKG 414 XLS is an excellent mic for recording various instruments. It will give you great sound...

If you can rent one, do so.
 
NationalSandwic said:
... saleable works, and at worst to produce excellent demos and guide tracks which can be re-recorded at better studios.
Click to expand...
It looks like the point Chessrock asked is still up in the air though. You do see the rather large void in implications between these three scenarios? :)
 
Anthony,

I don't know what you're wanting to record other than voiceovers, strings and horns, but I've never needed anything other than my pair of ADK TL (Matched pair) for that sort of work. They're beautifully detailed for classical music recording, and the shocks/pops they ship with (included in the price) are stunning for the cash. If you're looking for something special with string sections, pop them in M-S (use a VST matrix or what have you - my current favourite is the one by Tom Erbe - creator of the Soundhack software) and you get a wonderful sense of space. The multi-pattern thing is pretty useful if you're doing classical recording, but in omni the TLs are stunning for spacial representation on drums.

If you do a LOT of female vocals, I'd also recommend the SL - its just got a tiny bit more high end clarity.

I'm not affiliated with ADK so don't worry about that - I just love the gear that they've sent to me and, in comparison with comparable AT/Rode/etc. gear I've used they're amazing bang for the buck. I found it was cheaper to buy them from a US dealer and get them shipped over (even inc. taxes it worked out 20% less). PM me if you want to know where I got mine, or if I can furnish you with a bit of noise I captured using my mics then let me know

Thom
 
What mics do you have available locally within your budget, that you won't have to send away for and pay shipping and duty? If you can tell us what your local choices are, maybe we can make some suggestions. That way too there may be a chance of returning them if not satisfied.
 
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