A/D Conversion..

M

MisterP

New member
I'm doing Hip Hop & misc voicework for cartoons n stuff.. I've got a Shure SM7b going into an Avalon 737sp going into my M-Audio Profire 610 (which runs via SPDIF into my PCI EMU 0404... long story, but too many complications with firewire).

I'm still up-and-coming in the world of audio engineering, but I've had a lot of fun learning what I've learned so far.. And while I understand that the quality of my mixes lacks here and there most likely due to my rookie skills in the engineering aspect, I am a lot happier doing what I do with the knowledge that I'm working with some very slick gear (so that I never have that sneaky suspicion that a mix lacks because of an equipment issue).

So I wanna know how big of a leap in quality I'd be looking at going from my Profire 610's converters to using an A2D API.. I've got a chance to get one for basically half of the retail price.. but it's still a little steep (still payin for that Avalon!). Am I underusing my Shure and Avalon by putting them into the Profire? Will the difference in recording quality jump out at me if I shell out and get this A2D?

And I'm definitely not someone who expects a step-up in gear to make everything mix like magic, haha, I'm just a bit of an audio quality FIEND and I wanna make my job as easy and comfortable as possible. But if this leap in AD conversion isn't going to make that big of a sonic difference, then I'm not lookin to throw a thousand smackers at it.

Just lookin for some advice!

Appreciate it.
 
I don't know the answer to your question, but I did want to congratulate you on being the first person to post in the newbies forum for some time with more than $3.50 to spend on solving a problem... :eek:

I spent buckets of money over the years on "better" gear, and when I had good everything finally had to confront the realisation that I was the quality problem, not the gear. It seems you're already well aware of this.

Good luck, I'm sure someone who knows more about conversion will give you an answer soon!
 
Haha, thanks pal! :drunk: Yeah, I hit a point in my life where I wanted to really involve myself in this little creative outlet of mine.. for like 6 years it was just a silly hobby with a Radioshack mic.
 
IMHO the emu conversion process is in all likelihood at least slightly superior to the profire . . . so at very least I'd shorten the chain

At half normal retail, assuming that you will doing this commercially for awhile (and it doesn't break the bank) . . . over the long haul API's tend to be bargins . . . not boutique 'colored' pre's they are work horse throw at anything . . . the mic pre's on the API will not get in your way . . . recording a crappy source and the API's will deliver a crappy sound . . . recording a stellar source and API's will deliver stellar sound


while I have no experience with the API's conversion experience with a broad range of their product suggests it would be difficult for them to market something that was less then competitive with similar product (which does not include profire) . . . That said it is doubtful that the A/D conversion would be $1k step up from EMU . . .
 
^^ haha, no link.. I used to go to a studio once in awhile when I was 14-15 and got to know the engineer pretty well.. Dude's hooked me up with some other screamin' deals in the past.

Massive Master said:
A) The converters on the A2D will smack the PF's converters.

B) The preamps on the A2D will have you selling your 737 on e-bay.
Click to expand...

Haha, well that would sure solve my problem.. Hell, I'd be walking away with 700 in my pocket cuz I'd be able to sell the Profire off as well. I do REALLY like this Avalon unit tho, the EQ is great and I don't even mind its notorious compressor (seeing as how I just do only SLIGHT pre-compression), and the aforementioned studio engineer I know used it all the time on my vocals and they always sounded great.

The converters will smack the Profire's as I assume, but what kind of a sonic difference are we talkin' here?

oretez said:
IMHO the emu conversion process is in all likelihood at least slightly superior to the profire . . . so at very least I'd shorten the chain

....

while I have no experience with the API's conversion experience with a broad range of their product suggests it would be difficult for them to market something that was less then competitive with similar product (which does not include profire) . . . That said it is doubtful that the A/D conversion would be $1k step up from EMU . . .
Click to expand...

Really? The EMU has better/equal converters than the Profire's? This is the EMU 04040 PCI, not PCIe, by the way.. I got it on sale for 120 bucks at my Long and McQuade.. Not saying that money = better sound, but the sales guy told me it was "okay" but it if I ran my Profire through the SPDIF then I'd be maintaining my Profire conversion, suggesting that this was the better route to go... but that was a Long and McQuade guy. He also sold me a USB mic a few years back saying that it's all I'll ever need.

There's this weird dichotomy amongst "home recorders" where half of them say that A/D conversion makes a very subtle difference and the other half say it makes a tremendous difference. I've got a government job so I'm used to everyone having a different answer for things :p but I wish I could narrow this issue down before I narrow my chequing account down.
 
But thanks for the information, guys.

Oh and just so nobody wastes their time, I understand the fundamental science of A/D D/A conversion, and it's been explained to me before when I've asked about its correlation with sound quality.. But understanding the science of it doesn't really help me out with the tangible question of "How much does it help the sound?".. I searched and searched for some kind of a comparison test between different converters and was suprised to find nothing! Seems like a test that someone would've covered by now but I guess it'd be rather expensive to conduct.
 
adda conversion is a bit of an open and contentious topic I think...some people say that essentially a Sound Blaster can be confused with a high end converter in blind tests.
 
On a single listen, the difference can be very subtle -- But that "capture" signal is very important... If there's even a slight difference in "openness" and clarity and focus - on *one* input -- think of the difference after 20...
 
Hm, understood. That said, as someone strictly doing vocal work, maybe I'll cross the AD/DA bridge when I move along and eventually get into the production side of things (future aspiration). I think that's when these 'subtleties' of AD/DA conversion will really shine.

I think I'm working with nice enough sound to yield results to my satisfaction, and DEFINITELY nice enough quality for the producers I work with. I only ever do my own mixes when I'm doing two-track work over instrumentals I purchase off the web.. And I know the horror that is two-track mixing, so I think most of my concern of sound quality emanates from my challenges as an engineer.. I'll just have to keep at it! The more I play around, the more I learn.. I've just got to be patient and stop letting my friends rush me for new material. Ha!

Much appreciated everybuddy :drunk:
 
I've never been a creative L. fan so saying positive things even about the Emu is not easy. But I have used Emu product since Emulator days I have always in personal experience found chips & algorithms used for conversion to be at the upper end of 'consumer' market

how much any individual might be able (or think they can) detect depends on variables that can be accessed remotely . . . the room, mic, source (content + performance), perhaps pre amp are going to have significantly more overt impact of easily detectable differences then M-Audio Vs. Apogee in a typical project studio recording a single track at a time.

I have placed a number of 0404's in client systems that have years of completely unremarkable service . . . cards go in and they get used to point where they can even forget what card they have. That says not about quality of conversion but as I said Emu has always ranked near the top of consumer hardware (never a claim M-Audio has shared) Where 'quality' of converters become far more important is with stability of 'clock' when you are driving multiple I/0 (and simple durability, I do not want to even think I have to think about replacing converters on anything but a depreciation schedule
 
I'm curious too about this ad/da question...I tried to ask on another forum a little while ago and got "spanked":spank: for a lack of experience...I'm hoping that won't happen here :D

I have a Blue Robbie running into an mbox (soon to be mbox2) and have often wondered whether the money on the robbie was well invested. I thought it improved the sound of my mic (u87 now, k2 at the time) quite a bit, but I've wondered if my converters are somehow crippling that process. Sounds like the same question as the OP, how much do converters really help/ hinder my overall sound?

Thanks for any help! :p
 
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