A choral Recording with the ECM 8000's

Z

ZPphreak

New member
Okay, I had heard that they might do a good job on choral recording. I recorded this earlier today at my Old Highschool.

Here's my setup:
I used a pair of the ECM8000's on boom stands about 10' up and 25' apart.
They were positioned about 5 ft in front of the choir which sat about 35' wide in the room.
The mics were pointed in at 45 degrees and at a slight tilt down towards center.
The room is approx 35' deep and 45' wide and 20 ' tall.
The floor is asphault tiling and the ceiling is stardard school-issue Drop-ceiling.
The choir is positioned in the center of the room spread out along the wide span of the room.

I used a Behringer MX 802A mixer and paned the mics hard Left and hard Right respectively to attain the stereo image of the choir.
The recorder used was a Roland XS-880 XVpanded DAW. The piano used is a Kawai digital piano. I also ran the output from the piano into the DAW and centered the panning to reinforce the piano sound. I used a minimal amount of DI piano sound in the mix.

No effects have been added to the recording and all reverb is the natural reverb of the room. All EQ was done on the Mixer before entering the DAW.
I would have liked to move the mics back about 10 - 20 ft in order to get better blend but obviously the room size could not permit such an arrangement.

I am looking for comments on this "sound" that I was able to get with these two mics. Any ideas on EQ or other things that I could have done differently would be appreciated as I am just a learning beginner on mixers and this is my first mixer.

Song located here:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1934&alid=264


Thanks- Brent
 
checked out the ECM8000 recording. Definitely don't add any more reverb! I really don't have much to add, really. Just thought I'd tell you those mics are bad-a$$ and you did them justice.

stone
 
Nice.

You might consider a mild noise gate. EQ-wise, it's a bit mid-heavy . . . which is about right considering it's an aca pella choire and all . . . but I still think the fidelity could really open up if you were to cut some mids just a tad.
 
sounds great to me.

i've heard so-called "professionally" done HS choir recordings that are nowhere near as good.

for example for HS All-State recording, which cost $10, and someone came in and did, clips *hard* in several places.

that's just absolutely pitiful...none of that here, sounds good all around.

man, that behringer sounds pretty good..maybe i should get one! ;)

-wes
 
Very well done, especially considering the limitations of the room. I would boost the high end a little, which should give it a little more air.
 
Thanks!
Great tip there Slim. I'll look that over.
Keep em' comming folks!
I REALLY appreciate it.

The tips are MUCH needed as I mentioned I'm just starting out in recording.

-Brent
 
As I'm listening to it the first thing that sticks out in my mind is that there's zero low end.

That's it! That's all I had to add.

Nice job, I can't wait to try my ECM's....

RF
 
nice stereo sound, for sure. and yeah..there is a lot of room sound (ambient noise) too. a tough problem for sure. I gotta think I am hearing some distortion on the males on the left side...but then again, the headphones have been cranked all weekend too.

A very neat post.

did I miss the pno somewhere??:confused:
 
sounds really great..

the background noise needs to be tended to..
your can also hear them flipping pages? must be a good mic :)

sounds very pretty though!
 
Thanks for the listen guys. This is what it's all about. I think I'll repost it with some EQ done.. I'll repost here once it's done.

Rush-
My quick-N-Dirty EQ job dod NOT go unnoticed as I see.. like I said.. it's pretty much dry.. my cans kinda colored the sound when I was trackin at the school. That's why I didn't initially EQ the Low end a bit higher, because the cans were tellin me that the Low EQ was hot enough... but I guess speakers don't lie as bad.. Damnit my cans suck....

Mixmkr-
Yeah, the ambience is a lil big I think because of course the fact that the mics are omni.. but I have been thinking of using SD's to get the main sound, and use the ECM omnis to compliment the SD's slightly. fun it into 4 tracks and mix later on the Roland.
I don't think that that recording had any clips in it. It was one of the quieter pieces that I recorded that day. Highschool Choirs that are practicing (as they were) tend to be inconsistent with their volume. There are a few very small clips on some of the other recordings (caused by those damn overbearing sopranos). But I think that on this on I never got a OL light.

Did you mean "piano" when you said "pno"
did I miss the pno somewhere??:confused:
Click to expand...

If so: this one is an acappella song so there's no accompaniment.. HOWEVER I did record some other stuff that day with the piano in it and the ECMs picked it up pretty nicely. When I typed up the original description I still had not decided which song to upload.. But I thought I'd include it anyway just in case I decided to post one of the songs with piano in it :D
(So you weren't halucinating mix)

Thanks again people. I'll do my best to get another mix done and Look forward to your valuable feedback!

- Brent
 
I ran a quick EQ on it.. It's about right.. I still don't have the depth.. it sounds a bit distant.. I think it's just geting alot of ambience. I think that my idea of a pair SD's could fix this problem really quickly....or I could just get teh omnis up higher and put then like directly over the choir.. Hmmm I might need bigger booms...
Any ideas?
My first ideas on SD's were the MXL 603s's but since all the hubbub on the up-an'-commin' C4's I might just wait for those reviews to come in before making my decision on that purchase...

Well, here's the updated song: (same link)

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1934&alid=264

Thanks people. I really appreciate your ears and input.

-Brent
 
Hey there jMarcomb. Thanks for your reply.
The page ruffling will definitely not be there in a recording session. This was just their practice. For performances they always memorize.. It's still early in the semester for them to have memorized their music. They'll have it done by christmas time then It won't be a problem (the page ruffling)
Again, thanks for your post!

-Brent
 
On the Cans...

Man, I'm really impressed with the stereo spread myself. I'm getting low end from like, one guy in my left ear, and that's plenty.

33-36 seconds in...that tenor's hurting (flat), [not your fault, obviously] but otherwise, this is a really impressive performance. I didn't hear the first mix, but I noticed somebody comment to push up the highs. They sound okay to me, but I'm getting some kind of "room noise?"... Wondering if you hyped the highs any and got some hiss maybe, or...is that paper?

Man, the only thing on here that I'd change is the ending. sounds like you clipped it off a little short.

Very good job.
 
Thanks for the listen Chris. Yeah. there's a few page turnings in the recording. The Choir wasn't really doing good that day i just bopped in with my Gear and basically said "Do you mind If I record you guys today..." and they were fine with that.. (I'll get a good take later, I just clipped the end off accidentally.. but there was prolly talking at the end that's probably why I cut it short) I've been invited to record their dress rehearsal.. It will be in an auditorium.. could be challenging.. but we'll see. yeah. the old recording had a airy sound to it. no real "tone" I dropped the ultra high EQ bands as well as the really low ones to try to kill off some room noise. It was a really reverbous room so the ECM's picked up alot of the ambience being that they are omnis.
I definitely do NOT regret THAT purchase!.

-Brent
 
All the words are "make-out--able" :confused: That's a big plus when doing this type of recording... Definitely sounds "live"... I'm wondering if a few more mics, judiciously placed and mixed, wouldn't give this some more "depth" (remembering the 3:1 rule, of course...) I seem to remember an explanation (vaguely... possibly it's in Harvey Gerst's "Big Thread") about recording an orchestra using overheads and two SDs way out in front of the group... but I better quit before my ass starts talking here :D

Certainly a good recording... could use a tiny bit more "presence" and depth, but very nice. Not my expertise at all, so I'm just giving you a very "uninformed" opinion ;)


Chad
 
Thanks Chad. I did mention that I can't wait for my SD's.. I think I'll just settle with the MXL603s's and be pissed about how much better the SP C4's are when everyone else throws out THEIR 603s's (that won't happen .. I know..) but it's THAT kind of irony I expect in the near future.. say.. like right after my 603s's get to my doorstep....
Well, maybe I'm setting myself up to be able to expect the worse.
Thanks for listening and I hope to get another [better performance] recording of this group up soon.

Yes the presence will be better with more mics.. esp some with cardioid patterns...the omnis are exactly that... omnis.

-Brent
 
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