70s Style music

[Krakit]

I say try again on the vocals.

I really liked it, but Progressive rock is specifically my cup of meat.

If you want to make music that is well liked by the most people possible, I say run don't walk away from this style of music.

However, if I may, if you want to hook a loyal following that will still buy your product and see your shows (as long as you don't "sell out") until you decide to stop making music, keep going in this direction.

Progressive rock fans may be few, but they are tenacious to a fault and no fan base is more loyal.

Good luck.

Carl

 

[supertramp1979]

I used to listen to this kind of thing (and like the majority of that ilk - completely baked in someone's crappy old bedsit). A big fat hearty spliff might help me more appreciate all that ever-morphing, stream-of-music-conscious cacophony, but I kind of like the natural high these days I get from whistling a melody that doesn't put me in traction.

Yes I can sympathize. But there is something to be said for multiple listening personalities. For instance, if I want to listen to a 20 minute steve hillage piece, I dont HAVE to be high at all. I am a musician who only cares about melodies and instrumentation. If you need a high to dig it, then your kind of missing something.

I put on ELP's Brain Salad Surgery the other week for (perhaps) the 3rd and (definitely) the last time in my life; it's just plain meandering bollocks played with aplomb, isn't it? Totally carbon dated, fossil fuel for the creatively-impaired to exhume and clone.
I bet I could still listen to Supertramp in the evening (without chucking up breakfast), and anything from Yes up to the turn of the century (!), but my days of finding 'spiritual solace' in a 20-minute 'study in 48 different keys and time signatures' are thankfully over.

First of all, I agree about ELP. I have never once purchased their music. At all. But I will say this- that meandering isn't really meandering. If you listen to BSS over and over, you start to memorize it. Think of it as a really long pop album. Once you memorize all the changes and runs, it becomes much less tedious. And at three listening experiences I'm sure no one could memorize that! I take it your not into classical music either?

Great playing though. Really good. Enjoyed the bass antics. And as someone else said in the thread, it's probably great fun to play.
And if you hand out complimentary reefers at your performances, I'll take a ringside seat!

Haha...the truth is I cant smoke and record. I get too shaky! As for the compliments, thank you! But I know where you stand, and I can sympathize with that stance. Personally, minimalist music is yawn-inducing and I do enjoy playing fun/more fun adventerous music as tedious as it is. The thing with prog, or progressive is, it's not about the listener. It's completely about what the artist wants to do. Thats the beauty.

 

[supertramp1979]

I say try again on the vocals.

I say you're right!

I really liked it, but Progressive rock is specifically my cup of meat.
If you want to make music that is well liked by the most people possible, I say run don't walk away from this style of music.
However, if I may, if you want to hook a loyal following that will still buy your product and see your shows (as long as you don't "sell out") until you decide to stop making music, keep going in this direction.

not to play the "tortured artist" card here, I would say that my musical expectations are very low. It's funny how incredly little of interaction with other musicians I endure. I dont want to be in a band, I just like studio work and writing. More people HERE have heard my music than anyone NEAR me! Theres no musical thing going on out here (CA), it's just the worst. So yes, the latter option was the right one. Music is no longer my "passion" and I refuse to think there is any money in it. Nobody want adventure or experimentation in their music anylonger. Theres just nothing going on that makes me think otherwise.

Progressive rock fans may be few, but they are tenacious to a fault and no fan base is more loyal.

Posssibly, but not me. I hate all new "prog" rock. I only like the 70s stuff. Its probably in my DNA! Thankyou very much for listening, krakit.

 

[robin watson]

Yes I can sympathize. But there is something to be said for multiple listening personalities. For instance, if I want to listen to a 20 minute steve hillage piece, I dont HAVE to be high at all. I am a musician who only cares about melodies and instrumentation. If you need a high to dig it, then your kind of missing something.

Mate, you're talking to a guy who wouldn't rule out the idea of having 'Awaken' played at his funeral - believe me, I know and like some prog, but there is good and bad, and the latter is more representative of the 'Prog' concept.

[/QUOTE]First of all, I agree about ELP. I have never once purchased their music. At all. But I will say this- that meandering isn't really meandering. If you listen to BSS over and over, you start to memorize it.[/QUOTE]

You're still not selling it. Have to do better than that.

[/QUOTE]And at three listening experiences I'm sure no one could memorize that! I take it your not into classical music either?[/QUOTE]

I realise your last comment wasn't a condescension, but it does raise a 'valid point,' and what the hell, more debate even. Actually, I know most of Tchaikovsky's symphonies note for note, mate (No. 4 being my fave), Stravinsky's Firebird and Rite of Spring backwards (ever heard Lary Coryell's arrangement of the Rite for solo guitar - insane), my brain is practically hard wired for Ravel solo piano, it's impossible NOT to like Mozart to some degree (even plants like it), some Mahler, Holst, Bartok, the list goes on. The fact that I can and do very much appreciate such music (contrary to your assumption) says something about the different ways people even perceive music.

The 'valid point' you brought up I think is that you equated appreciation of such music with multiple listening experience, which does not automatically factor in; it's not a question of simply "getting to know all the changes," it's whether those changes are actually musical, make you react in some way. I don't break down a piece of music I'm hearing for the first time into its smallest elements, I'm listening to it as a whole, for its overall vibe. BSS doesn't get played again. "I know what I like," as Peter Gabriel once said.

[/QUOTE]Haha...the truth is I cant smoke and record. I get too shaky! As for the compliments, thank you! But I know where you stand, and I can sympathize with that stance. [/QUOTE]

Then I'm assuming you're not adverse to a little toke with yer Prog? There ya go.

[/QUOTE]Personally, minimalist music is yawn-inducing and I do enjoy playing fun/more fun adventerous music as tedious as it is.[/QUOTE]

"As tedious as it is"?? So you're playing to yourself, not to an audience/higher power. That's cool. By 'minimalist' I guess you mean 4/4 with less than 15 chords in the verse? Just kidding you there, buh.

[/QUOTE]The thing with prog, or progressive is, it's not about the listener. It's completely about what the artist wants to do. Thats the beauty.[/QUOTE]

You can wonder at that beauty all you like, but it gets absolutely gorgeous when others can see it too.

 

[supertramp1979]

You're still not selling it. Have to do better than that.

Well I wont try to sell, like I said...I havent bought any ELP album with the exception of the amazing Love beach.

The 'valid point' you brought up I think is that you equated appreciation of such music with multiple listening experience, which does not automatically factor in; it's not a question of simply "getting to know all the changes," it's whether those changes are actually musical, make you react in some way. I don't break down a piece of music I'm hearing for the first time into its smallest elements, I'm listening to it as a whole, for its overall vibe. BSS doesn't get played again. "I know what I like," as Peter Gabriel once said.

Quite right...you know what you like! I raised the question of classical music as I find it to be some of the more tedious meandering music of our time, correct; not to condescend you. Currently, I'm listening to music a little less popular than Yes (Pulsar, Egg) and tend to appreciate the obscurity and obvious determination of these old long forgotten bands. Its sad what has happened here, something that will never be seen again. Maybe good riddance to you, but for a 19 year old faced with either having MTV shoved down his throat or artsy 'meandering', the later is much more appealing!

Then I'm assuming you're not adverse to a little toke with yer Prog? There ya go.

not at all!

"As tedious as it is"?? So you're playing to yourself, not to an audience/higher power. That's cool. By 'minimalist' I guess you mean 4/4 with less than 15 chords in the verse? Just kidding you there, buh.

Yes as tedious as it is!! Yes It demands a lot of the listener, but also raises a new question; is this music to be appreciated by actual musicians or just "music lovers"? I dont really know too many people who are die-hard Yes fanatics who dont competantly play an instrument.

Best,

PS- what kind of music do you currently write and record?

 

[Krakit]

Well I wont try to sell, like I said...I havent bought any ELP album with the exception of the amazing Love beach.

Love Beach is "amazing?"

Why?

I'm a Tarkus/Triology man myself.

Carl

 

[supertramp1979]

Love Beach is "amazing?"

Why?

I'm a Tarkus/Triology man myself.

Carl

ELP learned what it meant to stop noodling around and meandering like robin talked about. With love beach, they got their density together...."love beach"..."canary"..."memoirs of an officer and a gentlemen". Absolutely stunning composition...along with "taste of my love". Great, 1978.

 

[Nakatira]

I Liked the windows track, though it could have sounded a bit better in my opinion, "more analog and dry", and fatter bass.

The two other tracks, reminded me of one of the vocalists of a group called vanilla fugde.

I to make 70`s prog, and I must say an overall thumbs up on your work.

Ps cool flute on the last rack, "hehe".

 

[supertramp1979]

I Liked the windows track, though it could have sounded a bit better in my opinion, "more analog and dry", and fatter bass.
The two other tracks, reminded me of one of the vocalists of a group called vanilla fugde.
I to make 70`s prog, and I must say an overall thumbs up on your work.
Ps cool flute on the last rack, "hehe".

Thanks. Personally, I felt the "dry" factor wouldnt work. I used a 1973 Dual spring reverb, so at least you can rest on the fact that it is analog and 70's all the way. The bass guitar...huh...such a dissapointment. Good tone. Great tone, but not very thumpy. Why? I do not know. I did everything right.

1978 Fender Prescision (P no less, supposed to be thee thumpiest), into a 70s Super reverb amp, direct out of the amp into a 1978 M15 recording console, and the amp being mic'd by a 1974 Shure Unisphere type I. I am happy with the bass, but you are right; it isnt like Jumbo's almost "throbbing" bass tone, but I have heard many recordings done from that era that do not necesarrily have a "basssy" bass tone.

this is one of the pleasures of "sub mixing". Very few people do it any longer. I went through about 4 submixes just to get right around 30-32 tracks of keys, synths, organs...etc and still doesnt sound as "wide" as Yes tapings. Keep in mind, Im running half inch tape at -10 db's. But before I did my first submix, I had 6 tracks of drums, 2 of bass....8 total...and at the time Im thinking "if I push the bass any louder it kills the bass drum, no matter what I do". Of course things change, phyisics work it out on the tape, and were left with cut-offs on things, such as the bass drum, in which seemed vital at the time, lost its appeal and flat out effect in general. There is a lot to consider when sub mixing.

So while you say it could have sounded better, I say I did everything humanly possible to keep all the gobs of tape hiss down! You should have been there, it got so hissy at times. I had to do "eq surgery"
best,
john

 

[Nakatira]

sorry mate if I sounded as I was putting you down, the recordings sounded good.
I`ve never even used analouge recording equipment, wish I could but for now no.

I just think, allthough it might be hard, the recordings would have been way fat and 70`s if you had that early Jethro tullish bass.

But again I`m just pleased to have met an other person who apreciates 70`s prog.

good luck to you.

and maybee If You`d like I could send you a track of mine.
wich is barely an atempt at 70`s prog.

cheerio

 

[robin watson]

Well, I think you're doing a grand job, keeping it all analog and stuff, and being very open minded about it, not to say graciously taking a bit of fun ribbing at the same time. I respect that.

Since you asked, our band website is here: www.edenrogue.com

The website is in its infancy, but there are three mp3s to listen to.

These are still the first batch of demos, recorded on 2 Adats through a Mackie 1604. The new songs are being done with an Alesis HD24 and Soundcraft 6000 mixer, which is a muuuuch nicer setup, but still nothing 'in the can' yet.

 

[supertramp1979]

Well, I think you're doing a grand job, keeping it all analog and stuff, and being very open minded about it, not to say graciously taking a bit of fun ribbing at the same time. I respect that.

Since you asked, our band website is here: www.edenrogue.com

The website is in its infancy, but there are three mp3s to listen to.

These are still the first batch of demos, recorded on 2 Adats through a Mackie 1604. The new songs are being done with an Alesis HD24 and Soundcraft 6000 mixer, which is a muuuuch nicer setup, but still nothing 'in the can' yet.

Robin, good stuff. I really appreciate all the words.

Best,
John

 

[supertramp1979]

sorry mate if I sounded as I was putting you down, the recordings sounded good.
I`ve never even used analouge recording equipment, wish I could but for now no.

I just think, allthough it might be hard, the recordings would have been way fat and 70`s if you had that early Jethro tullish bass.

But again I`m just pleased to have met an other person who apreciates 70`s prog.

good luck to you.

and maybee If You`d like I could send you a track of mine.
wich is barely an atempt at 70`s prog.

cheerio

absolutely no offense taken! I know you werent putting me down- just making honest musical observations. I would love to hear your attempts. You can contact me offline at sealscrofts1975@yahoo.com

Best,
John

 

[A Reel Person]

70's,

(MO, re: Windows):

The recording quality could improve some, here & there, perhaps through less bouncing, which would hopefully give a more robust sound to all the parts. Not to say they sound thin, just that they'd probably sound more robust with less bouncing, or maybe a hair less reverb. Any sonic issues or slight deficiencies would be more from bouncing than reverb, in my seasoned opinion, & what my ears seem to be telling me.

A high level of bouncing indicates you are probably the case of someone who's talent & creativity begs for (at least) a 24-track, (unlike myself)

The sound quality is not stellar, but it is appreciably good, considering all the factors, including production technique, the garage environment, and the relatively short time you've been recording. Your gear is more than adequate, & it sounds very "analog"

The vocals are a bit weak in spots, but it's strong enough that it comes across with lots of character, and fits the song very well. Instrumentation carries the song, & the playing is excellent. Compositionally, it keeps moving. I'm very impressed. The jam holds together well, & has enough changes that that succeeds in sounding "progressive". You say it's 70's style music and recording quality? Okay! I'll by that!

Overall, "Windows" is a pretty strong effort, that I'd give about an "8".

Pretty darn good for authentic garage recording!

I'll listen to some of your other stuff, when I get a chance. Keep it up!

Thanx,
Dave

 

[supertramp1979]

70's,(MO, re: Windows):
The recording quality could improve some, here & there, perhaps through less bouncing, which would hopefully give a more robust sound to all the parts. Not to say they sound thin, just that they'd probably sound more robust with less bouncing, or maybe a hair less reverb. Any sonic issues or slight deficiencies would be more from bouncing than reverb, in my seasoned opinion, & what my ears seem to be telling me.
A high level of bouncing indicates you are probably the case of someone who's talent & creativity begs for (at least) a 24-track, (unlike myself)
The sound quality is not stellar, but it is appreciably good, considering all the factors, including production technique, the garage environment, and the relatively short time you've been recording. Your gear is more than adequate, & it sounds very "analog"
The vocals are a bit weak in spots, but it's strong enough that it comes across with lots of character, and fits the song very well. Instrumentation carries the song, & the playing is excellent. Compositionally, it keeps moving. I'm very impressed. The jam holds together well, & has enough changes that that succeeds in sounding "progressive". You say it's 70's style music and recording quality? Okay! I'll by that!

Overall, "Windows" is a pretty strong effort, that I'd give about an "8".

Pretty darn good for authentic garage recording!

I'll listen to some of your other stuff, when I get a chance. Keep it up!

Thanx,
Dave

thats all I ever ask for!! You can hear the instruments, and you can hear everything. You know...its such a far cry from the porta-studio days that Im just glad you can hear everything!! I know the mix is naff, I know. Im not as dillusional as I wish I were; I realize this mix is far from good (windows).

I really appreciate you compliments to my music as, I feel like I put a whole hell of a lot more time into it than people do for more simple pop/rock songs, which get a much higher amount of praise. I put a lot of time into writing details and changes and dealing with the specificity of laying out drum tracks and making it all match, but it seems like only a handful of people can appreciate that. Like I said earlier, it demands a lot from the listener and a lot of people find music that concentrates on changes like this tedious. Im just sorry, but I am EXTREMELY frustrated right now. In my town, the musicians who get tons of praise are those who put minimal effort into it. Ive never gotten a compliment on my music....unless it was on a message forum from complete strangers! Thank you all.

But I know someone like you can appreciate all the things us low-life recordists are working against. As you pointed out- the garage envoronment will hinder the sound! It will hinder how I hear the sound out of the monitors! Its a fight, that I would need a LOT of money to win. You know I would very much like to hear some of your work. I would like to hear your production techniques. Yes I am VERY hungry for plus 4 db gear, MCI consoles and tape machines...I would just drool. But Im stuck with 70s Jap Scrap, Tascam 8 track. Of course, I should have done a lot more on my part to make the sounds more robust. The bass guitar, the bass drum, and the snare are my biggest shames. It seemed at times there was really nothing I could do about it. Its a sad time when you put a lot of effort into one thing, only to realize you havent gotten it right. Its a sad thing that there arent more musicians around here who are akin to what Im talking about. Its just a big bummer. Thats shitty. But I still have a few more years to go, I and guess when Im 22 things will be a whole lot different. I only hope. thanks reel person, and thanks for the 8!! Thats nice. In my state of being right now id probably give it a 1!
best
john

 

[cjacek]

Shit, John .. you're only 19??? Damn, that's amazing! It's quite extraordinary what you've been able to accomplish in a relatively short period of time. Yes, your tracks DEFINITELY have a 70's sound to 'em and you're quite gifted at picking up the "vibe" of that type of sound. You need some vocal assistance, though, to match your playing and recording skills. We know you have the "ear" and talent for music so all you need is better singing technique but that can be learned. No problem. I'm not saying to go to someone who'll "package" you into their version of a singer, but someone who can give general pointers on HOW to best use your voice (and not damage it). Shit, if you keep doin' what you're doin' and practicing, recording, polishing your singing etc ... in 3 years, you'll be a star!

Btw, many of us ANALOG ONLY folks use what you call "Jap Scrap" and we're very happy with it. Btw, you're using the 80-8 TEAC, aren't you ?

~Daniel

 

[supertramp1979]

Btw, many of us ANALOG ONLY folks use what you call "Jap Scrap" and we're very happy with it. Btw, you're using the 80-8 TEAC, aren't you ?

~Daniel

yeah 80-8 made in early 1978 or late 1977. wot have you got. Shit I havent been signed in this site in almost a year I guess. But you know your machines.
A lot has changed since then. A lot...what bad music i was doing then. or amateur is the word

 

[rayc]

Windows is ALMOST Starcastle - their bass player used more treble rather like earlier Genesis (Lamb Lies Down..)
Analogue synths certainly have their own flavours.
Magnetic Flux is much more original .
The percussives could use a little processing though.
Tell Me the voice is too far foward in the mix for the funkiness to work. The guitar noodles are good.
the ride cymbal (? Right Speaker) is a little too loud yet light of touch for me.
The flute's a bit wayward in parts.
Run things a little hotter or louder.
Great analogue sounds - generally well recorded. Nice to hear someone committed to analogies rather than digits.
Cheers
rayC