50W vs. 100W

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gartulan

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Hey--Is it true that a 100W amp is not "louder" than a 50.

I have a fender roc pro 1000 hybrid which may have a bum tube(it fluctuates in volume on the 2nd distotion)

So this head and half cab are heavy and don't fit in my car. I am thinking about purchasing a quality 2/12 combo or something like that.

Just wondering what people's thoughts were regarding a bigger is better rationale...
 
More wattage means more current to the speakers thus making
it louder. There are lots of 100 watt 2X12 combos out there though.
 
It's louder, but only by a fraction. Here's the URL to read for more info:
http://www.guitarnuts.com/amps/myths.html

And here's the main points of the article:
*All other things being equal, a 100-watt amp will be just perceptibly louder than a 50-watt amp. It takes about a ten-fold increase in power to double perceived volume. That's right, you'd need a 500-watt amp to be "twice as loud" as your buddy's 50-watt amp. Even more thought-provoking is the fact that a 50-watt amp will only be perceived as a little bit louder than a 15-watt amp driving the same cabinet!

*All other things are almost never equal. There are so many variables controlling sound pressure level (SPL) and perceived volume that it is quite common for a small amp to sound louder than a much more powerful amp.

*Cab design, speaker size and efficiency, signal compression, and several other factors have far greater impact on perceived volume than does power level.
 
so according to this article why would people buy these big 4X12cabinets (I bought my low end half stack from the beginning I am the weenie they are talking about) if you would just be mic'ing up the lower wattage or same wattage 2/12

doesn't seem to make sense
 
"twice as loud"

Well yeah, a 100 watt amp is not twice as loud as a 50 watt it just
has twice the output.

There is a diference, I had an old Carvin 100 watt combo amp that had a 50/100 watt switch in the back that would cut off two power tubes.

The difference was not "twice as loud" but you could definately tell when the four tubes where on.
 
amps

I have a 50watt 1x12 Ampeg Reverbrocket combo, and Ive never turned it up past 5 (volume). I play heavy rock and Ive always gotten myself heard over some very loud drummers. Ive played in small practice spaces, large venues, studios, etc.
I used to have a 100 watt Carvin head with a marshall 4x12 and I hated lugging that thing around (and come to think of it...the volume knob on that was always at about 4 or 5 as well, so.........)
hope this helps,
Todd
 
I used to play with a 4x12 and a 100 watt amp... the other day I played at practice volume with a drummer and another guitarist. He was using a 100-watt Sunn head with a 4x12 cabinet, and I was using a Peavey 30-watt tube 1x12 combo. I never turned up past 3, and I easily matched the other guitarist and the drummer, though the 4x12 definitely gave the other guitarist more bottom end.

All the math gets confusing, but it is definitely possible to get plenty loud with a 1x12 or 2x12.
 
Who cares how loud it goes! Look at the facts:

1. Smaller amps are easier to haul around that big amps.

2. Smaller amps are cheaper than big amps.

3. When you play live your amp goes through a PA and when you record a small amp will be just as loud as a big amp.

What you need to know is how the amp will sound no matter how big it is or how loud it goes. Find the amp that sounds best for your needs, then worry about the size.
 
gartulan said:
so according to this article why would people buy these big 4X12cabinets (I bought my low end half stack from the beginning I am the weenie they are talking about) if you would just be mic'ing up the lower wattage or same wattage 2/12

doesn't seem to make sense

Back in the olden days when 4/12 cabs were first popularized, a guitarist had to provide all his own volume. Sound reenforcement has come a loooooong way since then. Everything goes through the P.A. now, and often it is easier to make the band sound good when the guitarist has a smaller amp becuase the soundman isn't battling the amp to control the volume.
I've owned 4/12's and big amps in the past, but never again. In fact, I see the trend now moving towards really low watt amps like the Fender Blues Junior. 10 watts through a 12" speaker type stuff. Light, portable, great tone without the volume, and responsable for more classic tones than you would think.... Jimmy Page i.e.

Aaron
http://www.voodoovibe.com
 
Someone once told me that if you ever need more than 50 watts it'll be the sound man's problem. That being said, the only reason to go up to a 100 watt amp is because you want a cleaner sound at a higher level. If you want a distorted sound, you'd be better off with the smaller amp. IMHO

Keep in mind that a 15 watt amp is still as loud as a trumpet.
 
Speakers in multiples of 2 sound louder because of the area of speaker. More= more coverage.a 100watt 1-12 combo amp turned up will be screaming loud in a small area but lost to the world on a stadium or festival sized stage.Small venues are notorius for volume police type managers and such.Small wattage amps with the ability to produce considerable toneage should be considered and are why they are becoming popular.In my youth, I ran 2 4-12 marshall slants,two single 15's, and a 2-10 fender tremolux cabinet...power? one 20 watt ampeg head, and one bassman 50 watt head...volume? LOTS
 
When I played bass in bands (back in the olden days as Aaron says), I preferred Fender Bassman amps. There was a 50 watt and a 100 watt tube Bassman. The difference was like night and day. 100 watts ruled…but that’s with a bass amp, so I guess I should shut up.
 
It's a bit like driving a 4 cylinder Japmobile, it will go fast enough but a V8 does the job so much better.
 
Clive Hugh said:
It's a bit like driving a 4 cylinder Japmobile, it will go fast enough but a V8 does the job so much better.

Ya, but most people drive on the street (clubs), not speedways (areana)......so having a Mustang works out a bit better than a Lamborgini
 
I've heard/read Steve Stevens and Ignvey(among others I'm sure) both use 50 watt heads for their compression charactoristics.
 
simpleblue said:
Who cares how loud it goes! Look at the facts:

1. Smaller amps are easier to haul around that big amps.

2. Smaller amps are cheaper than big amps.

3. When you play live your amp goes through a PA and when you record a small amp will be just as loud as a big amp.

What you need to know is how the amp will sound no matter how big it is or how loud it goes. Find the amp that sounds best for your needs, then worry about the size.
number three is incorrect.
 
monty said:
When I played bass in bands (back in the olden days as Aaron says), I preferred Fender Bassman amps. There was a 50 watt and a 100 watt tube Bassman. The difference was like night and day. 100 watts ruled…but that’s with a bass amp, so I guess I should shut up.
well,you have good taste in gear man.
 
when i play clubs i never let the sound man run my guit sig completely i prefer my band to have a live sound.(i mean an in yer face loud guitar,busy bass and drums)
 
Here's something from today's e-mail. Someone asked me about the Fender '94-'01 "Twin-Amp" and most of what I said applies to this discussion. A 100WRMS tube guitar head is excessive for the reasons that have already been mentioned, but a 100WRMS open-back tube combo amp is idiotic in the 2003 context. Its main function at high volumes is to beat the tubes and circuitry to death with percussive vibration.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Do you own one?

Yeah. A brand-new 2001 I bought for $599.99 when they were closed out. It sits in the studio under a mover's quilt, where the cat sleeps on it.

> any opinions?

It's a decent enough amp, but too heavy, too loud, too fragile a case for the weight (of the five others I've seen, four had broken cases) and at the end of the day, I think it's pretty clear for technical reasons that a 100WRMS open-back tube combo is both a flawed and obsolete concept. At those wattages, you really need a separate head and a real enclosure - and that's assuming a 100WRMS tube guitar amp even makes any sense in the first place.

> How about reliability?

I can't address this from personal experience, as I've never used mine except around the house at bedroom volumes. It's a complex tube amp and that eventually translates to problems, especially if it's used at anywhere near its rated output. There are also the usual Fender bad solder joints that will eventually show up, particularly if subjected to the vibration battering the amp will get at the volumes it was designed to produce. There's a current thread on problems one user is having with this amp on alt.guitar.amps on UseNet.

> How about tube upgrades?

I think this is probably not worth the effort if the tubes in it are good, and the fact that it's a high-wattage, high-volume combo will reduce your practical options for the 12AX7 and 12AT7 tubes to short-plates anyway due to the vibration issue. JJs are probably the best bet. The stock Fender Sovtek so-called 5881s are not great sounding power tubes, but they are serviceable. I've come to the conclusion that the tube-substitution game is largely overrated in its effect on an amp without pre-existing tube problems. There's a large element of self-delusion in most claims for greatly improved sound after "upgrades" on most amps.

If I don't sound enthusiastic about this amp, it's because I'm not. I got it because it was a steal and back in the old days before onstage sound reinforcement, the Twin series was the pro setup and I never had one then. I bought it because I wanted one thirty-five years ago, not because it made the least bit of sense in the 21st century.

You'll get different opinions on the board, but they won't be as objective as the info above. People are all hot for these amps until they actually own one. Most people I've known who got them dumped them after the novelty wore off.
 
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