44 or 66...

  • Thread starter Thread starter salvetem
  • Start date Start date
S

salvetem

New member
Wtf is s/pdif used for? Is it just a digital input for use with a MD recorder or what? Also, if i was to purchase the delta 44 or 66, they do have headphone outs on em right? I hope you can help me out peeps, u all sound pretty clued up on this biz an im pretty new 2 it all. Thanx MUCH :)

Shaz :d
 
spdif is a digital interface for devices like MD's, DAT's, and others that have digital i/o.

I have a Delta 44 rig and there are no headphone outs. I run the output of the delta card into my mixer, which provides me with a headphone jack.

Dig the facts at http://www.m-audio.com
 
hey heinz,
so the outs on the 44 break out box are just 1/4"? Where do you plug monitors?
 
You plug your monitors into your power amp! The Delta is just an A/D/A converter interface for your computer, it won't power your monitors. If you have powered monitors, on the other hand, you simply plug them into outs 1 & 2.

All of the inputs and outputs are +4/-10 line level.

Slackmaster 2000
 
I would maybe suggest what heinz does (and what I will soon be doing), get a mixer, then you could route the output from your card into the mixer and have easier control of the volume of your monitors and headphones. Also, if you need them, you can use the mic preamps in the mixer too (if you don't already have a pre).
 
maaaaaaaan.... the more you know the more you dont know.... i thought id jus need the delta 44 and combine it with my audiobuddy pre an then thats all id need (except mics and software which ive already got). :( so why is it that my cheap-o soundcard can have speakers coming out of it (desktop speakers however) whereas a card for 200 notes requires a mixer or another amp 2 power speakers... you could easily spend 3 grand buying all this stuff for computer recording... im beginning to consider a standalone unit but i thought the computer route would be the way to go. :( :( sorry if it sounds like ive got an attitude prob but its gonna cost shitloads. to get a good sound it seems like you have 2 have all the gear before you can even start recording which is really pissing me off. Are berhinger really that bad? What would you guys buy in hindsite for a grand including software etc. Thaaaaaaaanx:) :) :)
 
You don't need the mixer. You can go from audiobuddy right to the delta 44. Only thing is if you want headphone output you need a mixer. Do you have monitors?
 
You'd need all this stuff no matter what dude. Your monitoring system is a completely seperate purchase from your recording system. You need either a power amp and passive monitors, or active monitors. You'll also need some *analog* way of controlling output to your power amp or active monitors...a small mixer or something would suffice.

Cheapo soundcards don't usually have powered speaker outputs anymore, and even the ones that still do don't do it very well. You typically purchase a powered computer speaker system which consists of 2 or more speakers in combination with a small built-in amplifier. The concept is exactly the same!!!

If pre and power amps were included right in a prosumer soundcard system, they'd be small, cheap, and sound like crap...plus you'd be stuck with them. And even if they were of high quality, then the cost of the system would reflect it and you'd have $1000 soundcard instead of a $600 soundcard.

Expect to spend up to $1000 on your rig just on the soundcard and monitor system to get started. If you want to wing it for a while, you can just use a stereo receiver to power some passive monitors, or just use your stereo. You could also just use a cheesy computer speaker system, although they are super-hyped and it will be difficult to create mixes that translate well onto other systems. In either case you'd just build cables/adapters to make the connections work. For instance, I'm running some Event 20/20's with an old NAD integrated amplifier. I use 1/4" to RCA cables to make the connection from my Delta 1010.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Slackmaster2K is right. Plus....even if you decide to get a stand alone unit instead of the computer you will still need an amp and monitors or powered monitors
 
but...

i know what your saying guys, but im not wanting true pro quality, ill settle for less... what would you guys buy with hindsight if you had £1000 ($1500). Thank ee kindly:)

:d
 
with that much you can afford a small mixer and one of the deltas. The delta44 costs like $250 I believe. If you don't want a mixer you don't need one. But you can then only use the audiobuddy. Do you plan on recording more than one instrument at a time?
 
We're not really talking about pro quality. Delta44 is $230. Active monitors can be < $500, and you might not need them right off if you can use a stereo or something. A small mixer to control levels to your monitors can be had for < $100.

So no, you can't just get a soundcard and expect it to make noise, but you can get into a setup little by little without blowing a wad.

If I was deciding between a computer-based DAW and some little standalone DAW like a Roland unit, I'd take the computer any day. It's just a lot more flexible. Not necessarily cheaper, but you'll have more options in the long run. However, if you're totally un-computer-savvy then you might not want to deal with the hassles of a computer daw. If you just want something you can pack around and record on, then maybe a standalone unit is for you.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Thanx for the speedy responce man! much appreciated:)

I remember you saying, "Expect to spend up to $1000 on your rig just on the soundcard and monitor system to get started" tho, which i dont want to do... and then you said about not having to spend a load of cash before getting a small setup together, which i now think is imposible. You see, i expected to simply upgrade my soundcard to the delta 44and then carry on from there with my shitty speakers, slow computer etc... and just upgrade things as i went along. But unfortunately i now know that i need a mixer in order to use headphones which i wasnt aware of as i can use head phones just now on my lame-o soundcard and then i also kinda need moniters... man the list is endless, and this is just to get started! lol. i appreciate your help tho, im not knocking you or anything :) you see im 16 and dont really have all that much money to blow. Every night i think: fuk it, im going to spend all my money on the one thing i love. but then in the morning i think... really, should i spend a grand (or more!!!:() on recording gear when we could just go to a studio. Its something i really want to do and everything tells me to do it, music is my life... but then when i started this i expected to pay no more than £300 you know, but then you read stuff on the net and they say well you NEED this 700 pound sound card etc if you want to ound at all good... I just want to record music on the computer, (im pretty comp savvy btw, no genious but i kno w pretty much what im doing) instead of using a banged up old 4 track. So many decisions. Thanx for taking the time to read this man, much appreciated. SO, to conclude... ive been looking about, and just now ill be working towards:

1) A new PC (£500...uncle works at compaq)
2)Soundcard: Delta 44 prob (£180)
3)Mixer: Soundcraft Notepad (£100)
4) Moniters :( (dont know what price or model yet)
5)Mics (£400)

Probably forgot loads... but im tired...cheerio:) :D
 
If you don't want to buy a mixer right away, you could always route the output of whatever recording software you're using to the other sound card instead of the Delta.

It would sound like crap for monitoring, but when you burn a CD, it would be better.

It's a temporary solution at best though.
 
What I meant was, expect to have spent $1000 on those items by the time you are in a "good spot". I did also say that you can buy incrementally, using whatever other resources you have available (a home stereo, for example). I just want to stress where you're going to be eventually, how you get there is up to you.

I know it's rough, so what you've got to decide is this: do you love the idea of recording as much as you love making music? Making music and recording are two different, although closely related things. If you just want to start a band and write songs and play gigs, then that's where your focus should be. Pay somebody else that money to record you. If, on the other hand, you feel the need for absolute total control, and feel that recording a sound is just as much an art as making a sound, then you should definately focus your money on recording gear, especially if you're a one-man show!

On one hand it's a bummer that you're only 16. On the other hand, if you're like most 16 year-olds, you're still mooching off your parents :) One simple part time during school breaks can pay for a whole mess of gear in just a few months. Perhaps your situation isn't quite so easy though, I'm just speaking in general.

Be warned that once you get these "little" items out of the way, you're still in for a big mess. Wait till you get your first condensor mic and realize that your room is too damn noisy...that's a lot of fun. Then you'll realize that every room in your house sounds like absolute crap and you'll begin the futile process of hanging blankets here moving furniture and blah blah. Then you'll be duking it out with your parents who don't understand why you have to keep blasting the same 10 second bit over and over and over and over while you're mixing. Oh, and then you can't get the right sounds out of your instruments because you spent all your money on recording gear, and no amount of DX plugin can help. It really becomes a much bigger deal than a lot of people imagine when they first start out. So make sure you have some goals before you go plopping down your limited funds on gear!

Slackmaster 2000
 
Thanx slack and lame and the rest of you:) What do you think of the soundcraft mixer i mentioned? soundcraft are better than berhinger right??
 
Slack makes a lot of good points.

Like you, I started with a Delta 44. What I did for more than a year was run the outs from the Delta's output 1 and 2 into my stereo, and used its speakers for monitoring. No, it wasn't perfect - far from it. But you could at least hear a reasonable facsimile of what your mix will sound like ON THAT STEREO.

Now, I have sprung for my first real monitors - the bargain basement m-audio Stereophiles, the 5-inchers. I paid around $280 for them, and as they are active, they don't need a mixer.

Speaking of a mixer, I still don't have one - I bought the Delta 66/Omni Studio package, which provides TWO headphone outs as well as master outs to go to the monitors. I absolutely love it - it does everything I need, and more.

My point is that you can start out with the 44 and a stereo and an Audio Buddy and get passable results. As your ability- and your ears - progress, you can add to that system as you can afford.

Just my 2 cents.

Fab
 
Slack makes a lot of good points.

Like you, I started with a Delta 44. What I did for more than a year was run the outs from the Delta's output 1 and 2 into my stereo, and used its speakers for monitoring. No, it wasn't perfect - far from it. But you could at least hear a reasonable facsimile of what your mix will sound like ON THAT STEREO.

Now, I have sprung for my first real monitors - the bargain basement m-audio Stereophiles, the 5-inchers. I paid around $280 for them, and as they are active, they don't need a mixer.

Speaking of a mixer, I still don't have one - I bought the Delta 66/Omni Studio package, which provides TWO headphone outs as well as master outs to go to the monitors. I absolutely love it - it does everything I need, and more.

My point is that you can start out with the 44 and a stereo and an Audio Buddy and get passable results. As your ability- and your ears - progress, you can add to that system as you can afford.

Just my 2 cents.

Fab
 
The purpose of a mixer (of some sort) between your soundcard and power amp or active monitors is not to power the monitors, but to simply control volume.

Now most power amps have some sort of attenuator that can be used to control volume, but from what I've always been told is that it's best to leave a power amp at or near 100%, because that's where it will perform optimally (flatest). I don't know much about all that though. (i'm not an expert by any means)

What I do know is that controlling volume via your soundcard's software is a bad for the following reasons:

1) When you decrease the level of anything digitally, you are in fact removing resolution from the signal before it is converted to analog, at approximately 1bit per 6db (remember that the db scale is logrithmic!). So if you're controlling your monitoring level digitally, and you have to drop the signal down by say 30db, your 16bit signal is now an 11bit signal, which you're then going to run through some converters and amplify. Of course dropping level with an analog device also results in the permanent loss of resolution, it is at least resolution in the continuous domain and the resulting noise will be more acceptable.

2) While some drivers may prevent this, some audio applications will grab control of your soundcard's levels, which can lead to unexpected and disasterous results (e.g. an application is set to 100% volume without your knowledge, and achieves this by cranking your main out faders to 100%, and kabam that's going to be loud).

So, it's best to toss a decent analog circuit between your soundcard and your monitors. A mixer might be a good choice. Integrated amps, like stereo receivers, are doing taking care of this for you...it's the same principal.

BTW, that little soundcraft notepad has gotten some really nice reviews.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Salvetem... hopefully you'll find this encouraging, but realistic at the same time. I'm exactly twice your age, but still putting things together myself with "bang for the buck" components.

You've been given a lot of good advice about inexpensive gear, and the more "stuff" that you can get (of at least fair quality) will give you more flexibility, and more quality. Build it piece by piece. You won't have it all overnight.... which is just as well, because there is a considerable learning curve associated with just figuring all this stuff out... how to use it and what not.

Cubase will take you about a year to get comfortable with if you are fairly inexperienced with a lot of the basics of multitrack recording to start with. I've been using it for two and a half years and am still learning.

So you got a condensor mic.... this will sound funny, but it will take you a while to learn how to use it. Where do you put it? What angle? How far away? Should you use the dynamic for **** instead? There is so much to learn, and learning it all at once can be overwhelming.

To draw a bit of a parallel to when I was sixteen.... I bought my first electric guitar... plugged it into the mic input of my ghetto blaster. Then I bought a Peavey practice amp, then a distortion pedal, then a much bigger and louder Peavey Stage amp, and then a couple more pedals, then I experimented with a rack system with a great power amp and a crap preamp running through a barely Okay speaker cabinet, then sold rack system in favour of another amp - a 150W head and 2x12 cabinet, then an effects processor, then another guitar, etc.

I'm not telling you this because I think you care about my guitar rig history, but to illustrate that we ALL go through a growing process. It will take time, and it will involve spending some money along the way. In going through this learning process, you will learn a great deal about the individual components, your rig and the rigs of others in general terms, and eventually, you'll get there. By researching and asking good questions to knowledgeable people, you're making progress already. Keep building, learning, and asking questions, and trying stuff out!

Chris
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top