424 MkII and Phantom Power

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studiodrum

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Okay guys, . . I'm really struggling here, trying to choose a descent phantom power supply for my Tascam 424mkII to supply my OH condenser drum mic, . . Initially, I was using a Yamaha MG series sub-mixer for the drum tracks, and fortunately the Yamaha has its own 'phantom' power.

However, since the Yamaha was loaned to me by a friend, I realize that I will need a a way to supply phantom power when I don't have access to the mixer. . . .

I was going to purchase an ART Tube MP for 49. bucks. . .I thought it was good price, and if I decided at a later time, to upgrade to something better, . .I can always use it as a bass DI box, and wouldn't feel the pinch of $49. too badly. . .But, is the Art tube MP similar to those 'Rolls' phantom power boxes?

Then I thought maybe I would invest in a Studio Projects VTB1 for a slightly upgraded pre-amp, and since it provides phantom power, I thought that the VTB1 might add a little color to my vocal tracks . . .But, I'm not sure if that will really make much of a difference in the vocals, and $140 bucks is a chunk of change.

So, please have mercy on me, and help me out with this dilemma. . . I would be eternally grateful. . . sorry for being so indecisive, and such a whiner .. .
 
Stand alone higher end pre-amps are usually something that our digital friends have come to be dependent on because their computer sound cards never to rarely offered anything resembling a decent microphone preamp.

Your Portastudio, on the other hand, does in fact offer decent microphone pre-amps and only lacks the phantom power so, I would just pick up the Rolls model and be done with it.

Cheers! :)
 
Kindof off topic but

I was at guitar center today and wanted a Dual phantom power adapter,(for pretty much the same purpose) and the guy looked at me and said "buy a mixer" and walked away. I contacted the manager of the store and said they lost business and I won't be back
 
Okay, lemme see if this is sinking in yet?

Basically, if I buy a 'phantom power' box, like a Rolls, ART, or Audio Technica, . .They ONLY provide phantom powered supplied to my original 424 pre-amps to power my condenser mics,. . . But, If I get an ART Tube MP, or VTB1, or Audio-M DMP3, . then I will be bypassing my original 424 Pre-amps and substituting them, for one of those other pre-amps, and those other preamps, will also provide phantom power .. . is that correct?

So, if I want to add some color or flavor to my vocals that I might be better off looking into a compressor, or reverb unit, rather than trying to replace my pre-amps. . . am I even close?

I do have a few phantom power queries that I can use some help with:

If I need more than 1 channel of phantom power, would it be wise to get a 2, or more channel phantom power box. . . or better to keep them separate?

Also, is there any difference in the phantom power boxes that run on batteries as opposed to the ones that run on AC power. . .and are there any 'phantom power' brands that are better quality, . like the Audio Technica, Rolls, or ART, . .or is phantom power, . .pretty much gonna be phantom power. . .?

and last but not least, . when I plug my XLR into the 'phantom power' box, what type of cable will I need to go from the 'phantom' power box to the 424 MkII? "whew" ;) Thanks. .
 
The external phantom power supply will still need to output a balanced signal to connect with your Portastudio so, in effect, you will not be by-passing or replacing your built in pre-amps in the 424 even if you went with an external pre-amp which had phantom power supply in it.

All you could realistically do is minimize the effect of your built in pre-amps by turning their trims down so that they effectively become line inputs.

To connect a phantom power supply you will need an additional short balanced Mic cable and I would suggest purchasing a phantom power unit that plugs into AC so that you don't find yourself short a 9volt battery in the middle of an important tracking session.

As to which one is better or best? I don't know in that I haven't seen any shoot-outs on which is best though a name like Audio Technica carries more clout then Rolls.

As for multi-channel vs single or dual channel?

Buy what you foresee yourself needing now and in the future. But, if you know that you mostly work alone or with only one other person at a time, odds are a dual channel model will fit the bill.

Cheers! :)
 
And yes, Save money for compressors and reverb units instead of semi-exotic microphone pre amps that duplicate what you already bought and paid for.

Cheers! :)
 
I'm just a li--tle bit confused . ..

Its not that don't get it completely, . .and its not your explanation, Its just me!
I'm just a little 'audio-electronically' challenged on this issue. . .I would just like to know a little bit more about the way a phantom power box and an external pre-amp works with the 424 MkII. . . .

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, . .a phantom power box is JUST providing phantom power-- Its not a pre-amp. .correct?

Now, if you have an external pre-amp (like the ART, or DMP3) that also supplies phantom power, . .is there a way to connect the pre-amp to the 424, and JUST use the phantom power of the unit, and not use the pre-amp. . .or is the pre-amp and phantom power, 'as one'

"I guess what I'm trying to say is,. . If I buy a ART Tube MP, or a DMP3 and use it for 'phantom power', . . will I have to use the ART, or DMP3's pre-amp as well. . or is there a way to use original pre-amps already on the 424 MkII, and ONLY use the 'phantom power'. . .or is that just stupid?


(AND WHAT ABOUT THE 1/4" UNBALANCED PLUGS ON THE 424 MKII, . .IF I PLUG AN EXTERNAL PRE-AMP INTO THOSE PLUGS WILL I BE BYPASSING THE 424'S PRE-AMPS?)

. . .and just so you know the method to my madness, the reason that I'm pushing the possibility of getting a ART Tube, or DMP3 is of course because I need phantom power, But also, 'cause I thought since I will be needing a Bass Guitar DI-- that I might as well kill two birds with one stone, However, If a stand alone 'Phantom power' box will give me a cleaner signal, . .then that might be a better way to go . .and then just get a separate DI box for the bass. . .

Last question, regarding how to connect a phantom power box to the Tascam 424. . .You mentioned that I will need a "short balanced Mic cable"

I have noticed that on a few of the the phantom power boxes that they have an (XLR IN) and an (XLR OUT). . .So, do I get a balanced cable that is XLR ---> XLR, and plug that into the BALLANCED XLR Channels 1-4 of my 424 MkII . .or do I get a XLR ---> 1/4" plug (TRS???) and plug that into the UNBALLANCED input?

Once again, I apologize for such 'brain dead' question, But, I really would really like to have a better understanding about this whole, phantom power thing. . . I realize that its a 'no brainer' and that I'm making a bigger deal out of it then need be. . .But, I just want to make sure that I get it, . and that I cover all my basses. . .

Thanks for your patience. . . Have a great weekend!
 
Last edited:
studiodrum said:
I have noticed that on a few of the the phantom power boxes that they have an XLR IN, and an XLR OUT. . .So, do I get a balanced cable that is XLR ---> XLR, and plug that into Channel 1-4 of my 424 MkII . .or do I get a XLR ---> 1/4" plug (TRS???)
Click to expand...

I hope my two cents won't discourage Ghost from replying, but your 1/4 " inputs on the 424 are unbalanced (TS). Jeff suggested a short balanced mic cable to hook up to the 424 from the ART box.(or the others) The Tube mp has "regular" female cable inputs that accept a standard mic cable, but the balanced output needs a female connector on one end, and a male plug into the 424.

It (the ART box) also has an unbalanced 1/4 inch output.
 
So, if I'm understanding this correctly, . .a phantom power box is JUST providing phantom power-- Its not a pre-amp. .correct?
Click to expand...

Correct.

Cheers! :)
 
Now, if you have an external pre-amp (like the ART, or DMP3) that also supplies phantom power, . .is there a way to connect the pre-amp to the 424, and JUST use the phantom power of the unit, and not use the pre-amp. . .or is the pre-amp and phantom power, 'as one'
Click to expand...

Not to my knowledge, no. If you use an external pre-amp, it won't offer a "bypass" mode.
 
Last question, regarding how to connect a phantom power box to the TASCAM 424. . .You mentioned that I will need a "short balanced Mic cable"
Click to expand...

Yes I did! Please buy one and use it.
 
I have noticed that on a few of the the phantom power boxes that they have an (XLR IN) and an (XLR OUT). . .So, do I get a balanced cable that is XLR ---> XLR, and plug that into the BALANCED XLR Channels 1-4 of my 424 MkII . .or do I get a XLR ---> 1/4" plug (TRS???) and plug that into the UNBALANCED input?
Click to expand...

You get a short balanced cable and plug one end into the output of the phantom power supply and the other end into the microphone input on your 424. We are talking about phantom power for microphones so you would always use a microphone balanced input.
 
art box

I use an ART phantom power box with my condenser mike and hook to my 424 and its sounds great. Go with xlr cable from mike to "in" on box then xlr cable from"out" on box to xlr on the 424 on whatever channel you wish to use. You will like the result! :)
 
Okay, okay, now its making more sense!

Whew, . .sorry about my 'brain fart' on this phantom power, and pre-amp issue .. . But! I have one more question, . .

If, I wanted to use an external pre-amp, like a M-Audio DMP3, or something like that. . . Where would I plug that into the Tascam 424 MkII. . . ?

If I plug the DMP3 pre-amp into the (1/4") Unbalanced MIC/LINE plug would that bypass the original Tascam 424's pre-amp. . . .? or would I plug the DMP3 pre-amp into the (XLR) balanced plugs .. . and why?

Thanks again for your help!
 
Take Ghost's advice and use a balanced mic cable between the phantom power box and your TASCAM. Why? Because you'll have a higher signal to noise ratio if you do. And that's the key to good recording. It's that simple.

You cannot "bypass" the preamp by using the 1/4 inch input, but don't add gain on the signal when you bring it in. Gain structure is the most important contributor to an excellent sounding system.

You don't want to add gain more than once. Have the players play as loud as expected during the performance, and bring up the gain trim on your phantom power supply to the point where it occasionally clips on the 424s LCD display.

Gotta go do my honey-do's so I can get into the studio! Later!
 
Finally, got my Phantom power!

Okay, guys, I finally picked up a 'Phantom Power' box. Its very simple, it has an XLR IN, and an XLR OUT, No, Gain, or any other buttons.

So, I'm just wondering if there an optimum length that the cable coming out of the 'Phantom Power' box and going into my Tascam 424, should be. . .My mic cable is 25'. . .?
 
The length isn't critical.

Something long enough to go from the phantom power unit to the mic input, say, 3 to 6 feet.

Cheers! :)
 
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