410 or 212?

Q

question444

New member
I am interested in the Fender Deville amps. They offer a 4X10" configuration as well as a 2X12" configuration, both with the same wattage and basically the same price. Can anyone give me any tips on how to choose between these? The only thing I can think of is that the 12s will give more bass. Thanks a lot. Any other amp advice is welcome.

(i am playing an american standard HSS strat)
 
You owe it to yourself to at least try the 4x10" if you haven't played through one. They have a special sound. You might like it, you might not, but it's worth a listen. It's kind of big, 3-D, swirly, what have you, but not in the thundering engineer-is-going-to-EQ-all-of-it-out-anyway-to-make-room-for-the-bass sense of the word.
 
I'm a big fan of 4x10 cabs. I had a Hartke 410XL for years, finally traded it off for something lighter, and a friend has a '67 Fender Super Reverb that has the killer tone.

Four 10" speakers have more surface area than two 12s, so the 12s have no advantage in bass. It's all in how you set the EQ.
 
Having played on both, I tend to lean more towards the 4x10 configuration. Even though I play a lot of heavier stuff, the clarity of the amp sounds better to me, and I have yet to feel like I'm missing out on any low end.
 
question444 said:
The only thing I can think of is that the 12s will give more bass. Thanks a lot. Any other amp advice is welcome.
Click to expand...


You might think that, but you'd probably be wrong. 2 12" speakers will give you about 38" of speaker area (including the two voice coils). 4 10" speakers will give you about 125" of speaker area (including the four voice coils). More speaker area gives more bass (all else being equal).


Gabriel
 
Well, I could be wrong. Let's see here.


6x6x3.14 = 113.04x2 = 226.08


5x5x3.14 = 78.5*4 = 314


Yup, my math was way off. I guess I forgot how to figure out the area of a circle. Still, with the right math my point is still valid (which I knew, but I've never claimed to be much good at math).



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
For years I played through a Fender Super Six combo - it was a Twin Reverb head on top of a 6 X 10 speaker layout.

Sounded good, and was about the size of 1-1/2 stack.
 
I think that the 4x10's sound crisper then then 2x12 setup. I personally like the sound of a distorted 12 more then a 10, it seems to 'sag' a bit more to my ear. I think that's why most bass players, if they're playing with alot of grit are kicking it through a '15, not 4x10, which to me ends up sound really clanky. At least on my gear it does.

A guitarist friend had a 4X10 and it sounded like an icepick in my ear with a tele and the prescence turned up all the way.

Andy
 
I tend to like the sound of 12's more than 10's...regardless of how many there are. The quality of the speakers does matter too though. I would take good 10's over crappy 12's anyday...but in your case the speakers are the same quality...so personally I'd go with the 12's.
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AndyK12 said:
A guitarist friend had a 4X10 and it sounded like an icepick in my ear with a tele and the prescence turned up all the way.

Andy
Click to expand...

I had a Music Man HD130 Reverb with a 212 cabinet and it made humbuckers sing...when I played a Strat through it it sounded like wire surgery.

Lesson: don't play Fenders.
 
Light said:
Well, I could be wrong. Let's see here.


6x6x3.14 = 113.04x2 = 226.08


5x5x3.14 = 78.5*4 = 314


Yup, my math was way off. I guess I forgot how to figure out the area of a circle. Still, with the right math my point is still valid (which I knew, but I've never claimed to be much good at math).



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
Click to expand...

If we're just talking math, then we would need to also include the throw of the speaker (how much it moves in and out) and all the other technical stuff (sensitivity, impendance, etc.).

But I'm thinking, just go with whatever sounds better to you and not even go down the math path. (Math=Just Say No)

... unless you're mess'n with the wiring.
 
Well, I'd say that Light is both right and wrong.

The math is correct. And you do need cone surface area to move low frequencies convincingly. If the speakers (a 10 and a 12) are being fed a frequency that they can both produce equally efficiently, then more cone surface area wins.

However, all other things being equal, a 12" will generally have a lower resonant frequency and low freq -3dB point than a 10" speaker and will be producing more low-end content in the range of, say 150 hz down.
 
i think the question is what genre of music you will be using it for. to my way of thinking, 12s may sound better, for example, if you'll be playing metal riffs. but for most anything else, i personally prefer the sound of 10" speakers, as they seem to just be tighter and clearer.

i love the deville 4x10s, they're one of my favorite amps. they have a really versatile tone no matter what genre you happen to be playing...except maybe the aforementioned drop-tuned metal/hardcore riffs, which isn't usually a realm i delve into anyway.

and another big factor: if you're going to be playing live a lot, i've found in my own personal experiences that the more speakers you're playing through, the better your sound projects regardless of wattage. i have never liked using 2x12s or especially 1x12s live, they just don't seem to cut through the mix like a half-stack. so the 4x10 may give you a little more headroom onstage, though i have yet to have the privilege of playing through one in a live situation. like that one dude said, it might sound like an icepick to your ear in a bedroom or garage or something, but onstage you can be sure your chops will be heard without being the volume being dimed.

this was probably entirely more than you bargained for, but hopefully it was helpful.
 
Wire surgery, I like that...

I don't know what it was about that particular combo it just sometimes sounded so shrill it hurt. You know when you have the clean channel pushed to the max, it's not quite breaking up, the power tubes aren't sagging and you play a D7 and it sounds like a million chickens screaming. Fuck, its awful. That's what I associate with telecasters. I want to like them because I recognize the cool factor - I just can't.

Good luck on your amp. You can always just add another cabinet as well and unplug the original cab, that's always an option if you wanted different tones.

Andy
 
a two twelve amp (combo) fits better in a small vehicle. LOL. I prefer 2x12 cabs but a 4x10 is a beast of a different color. ten's definitely have a sound unliek a 2x12. Let yr ears be the judge. In my case the 4x10 combo is just too much to move given the vehicle., unless you have a head and 4x10 cab. I like them both and at stage volume I find the 4x10 a little bit more fun as (given eficient speakers bot sound good. Now I know that helped little but .... oops new pet just begged to go out will be more helpful later. Be well all. W.
 
AndyK12 said:
Good luck on your amp. You can always just add another cabinet as well and unplug the original cab, that's always an option if you wanted different tones.

Andy
Click to expand...

It's a combo, and while you might be able to unplug the speakers you'll still have to lug them around. BTW, most amps I've heard with the presence dimed sounds harsh. Why would you crank the presence all the way up? On a different note, I've recorded plenty of tele's that sounded wonderful so maybe it's just your playing?
 
AndyK12 said:
Wire surgery, I like that...

I don't know what it was about that particular combo it just sometimes sounded so shrill it hurt. You know when you have the clean channel pushed to the max, it's not quite breaking up, the power tubes aren't sagging and you play a D7 and it sounds like a million chickens screaming. Fuck, its awful. That's what I associate with telecasters. I want to like them because I recognize the cool factor - I just can't.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Tele owners are oblivious to the pain they are causing! Right after Roy Buchanan died I bought a couple of his CDs to find out what the fuss was about, and I couldn't listen to them. Obviously he had some serious chops, but that shrieking sound was unbearable.

Others will disagree.

Back to the MM: my MSA pedal steel, also with a single-coil pickup, sounded really great through it. I guess it's just Fender guitars (I'm not anti-Fender: I have refined my bass collection to two Fenders, a fretted '51 Precision Reissue and a fretless split-coil P).
 
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