4 track recording deck?

Based on your most recent post that went up while I was typing:...

If you record into the channel at Redline levels and playback at -6 levels, you may have a calibration issue.

This is not the end of the world, and is not "broken", but is something that comes along with analog electronics.

If this is the verified problem, of level dropoff between record and playback, it can be adjusted out but may be best referred to a qualified tech,... someone who's an old-timer who has a cassette standard calibration tape and experience in analog tape recorders. If you can send it to a certified Tascam repair center, even better.

If you do some methodical tests and find you have level inconsistencies seek a service professional.

/Best/
 
A Reel Person said:
You should get all four tracks playing back at relatively the same level.
Likewise, the playback level should be roughly the same as the record level you gave it while recording.
Click to expand...

With respect, what I underlined is the whole point. I patched my dynamic mic into the Channel 1 socket last night and did a "1234" test until the meter went into the red, right into the red. When I played the recording back the recording hardly got beyond the zero midway point on the meter. Why please?

Last night I used no external mixer, just plugged the mic directly into the Tascam.

The quality of the vocal was good, clear; but when I sang to an acoustic guitar just now - mic to Tascam, no external mixer - guitar recorded several days ago, the voice is totally dwarfed: I have to boost it with all the equalizers; I don't sing that loud - but then again I don't sing that quietly. Any louder / closer to the mic and I'd be puffing plosives through the pop filter.

Will print out your directions and do another test recording.

The heads are cleaned every session. The heads are degaussed every other session.

Many thanks.
 
Farview said:
If the recording levels were in the red, the mic is not the problem. What do the playback levels indicate? ... Worst case, your recorder is broken.
Click to expand...

Thanks but this makes no sense to me - if my acoustic guitar is picked up so clearly that I can fault the string buzzes on playback, why is the vocal level like recording a miner singing beneath the ground?

My vocals are in the red - the playback is below zero - what gives?

I would say the calibration is out, out, out - those red levels are not making it through to the actual magnetic tape, something is acting out a baffle effect inside the Tascam, that's all I can imagine, not being into electronics, that's all I can hazard a guess at.
 
also notice that low frequencies (kick bass drum) and high frequencies (acoustic strings) are picked up very well yet middle frequencies like the human voice and snare drums struggle in the mix. Again, it suggests some sort of 4-track recorder calibration issue to me?
 
kr236rk: You've received some fine help from the guys and especially Dave (A Reel Person) but at this point, if you haven't really figured it out, I would say that you either have a faulty recorder or you really need to study the user manual some more, go step by step carefully. It's all in there. If you still have issues after that (and you feel you're doing everything "by the book") then I would suspect a fault with the deck - best diagnosed by a competent tech. If the deck is deemed fine, with no issues then I'm not sure what to suggest.
 
We recorded on three tracks, mixed down to one while playing one more track, then added the remaining three. For that reason, we left the lower frequencies for last. We never liked the result when we bounced twice. So, we got seven tracks. If we wanted more, we recorded two guitars together, or guitar and piano. Drums were in mono. Other people probably had another system.
Rod Norman
Engineer

kr236rk said:
Hi,

Back in the day, how did you record on a 4-track cassette deck please?

How many overdubs could you do - were there buttons for overdubbing - could you erase an overdub without affecting the original recording (first track)?

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
...

I'm starting to lean more toward severe calibration issues, but it's indeterminate unless or until some really methodical tests are done, preferably with a steady test tone like keyboard notes instead of guitar/vocals/mics, which have their own variables.

Analog machines require a periodic tune up of sorts to keep all the audio signals up to spec, and the 424mkII is pushing 15 years old now. Some level drop off would be expected, but not down to "0" in typical cases.

Other issues may be at play here, but again it requires careful and methodical testing.

:spank::eek:;)
 
video

Thanks to all.

Here's a hasty video as I follow Dave's kind advice above for checking the mic levels

TASCAM - YouTube

It's those levels I'm watching - during recording, and then on playback.

Advice and opinions appreciated!

Thank again

Ric
 
A Reel Person said:
If you record into the channel at Redline levels and playback at -6 levels, you may have a calibration issue.

This is not the end of the world, and is not "broken", but is something that comes along with analog electronics.

If this is the verified problem, of level dropoff between record and playback, it can be adjusted out but may be best referred to a qualified tech,... someone who's an old-timer who has a cassette standard calibration tape and experience in analog tape recorders. If you can send it to a certified Tascam repair center, even better.

If you do some methodical tests and find you have level inconsistencies seek a service professional.

/Best/
Click to expand...

Thanks Dave,

You have been a fount of knowledge & I appreciate it! ;)

Don't really mind the drop-off, if that is what it is, I can work around it, as long as I know what it is. Once verified I could well seek out a tech to tweak it because I've grown kinda fond of this tape recording thing - as inept as I am :-o - plus when all my computers are down - or updating - or configuring - or, or ... it's so great to just turn on the multi-track and get into some recording!

Bests
 
Rod Norman said:
We recorded on three tracks, mixed down to one while playing one more track, then added the remaining three. For that reason, we left the lower frequencies for last. We never liked the result when we bounced twice. So, we got seven tracks. If we wanted more, we recorded two guitars together, or guitar and piano. Drums were in mono. Other people probably had another system.
Rod Norman
Engineer
Click to expand...

Thanks Rod,

Prior to working out on the 4 track I used to do the drums in bits. Now I have to do the drums all in one go - that's snare, kick bass + cymbal all in one. So working with the Tascam has taught me to economise on what I do, and that's a positive ;)
 
Very good video Ric. I think it's safe to say that you're getting a healthy signal through the mixer but for some reason it prints very, very low on tape. It seems you're doing everything correctly. I don't think it's a calibration issue, unless the previous owner had purposely screwed around with the pots inside the unit. Now, unless I'm missing something obvious, it looks to be a more involved electronic issue or maybe a bad connection. Did you have the recorder shipped to you? Was it tested to be working fine before hand? How was it packed? Forgive me if this was answered before but are you absolutely sure that the heads are mirror like clean? Still, I've never seen an issue like this just from not cleaning heads regularly. Also, do you have a known good prerecorded tape that you can pop in there and test if the playback is good?
 
cjacek said:
Very good video Ric. I think it's safe to say that you're getting a healthy signal through the mixer but for some reason it prints very, very low on tape. It seems you're doing everything correctly. I don't think it's a calibration issue, unless the previous owner had purposely screwed around with the pots inside the unit. Now, unless I'm missing something obvious, it looks to be a more involved electronic issue or maybe a bad connection. Did you have the recorder shipped to you? Was it tested to be working fine before hand? How was it packed? Forgive me if this was answered before but are you absolutely sure that the heads are mirror like clean? Still, I've never seen an issue like this just from not cleaning heads regularly. Also, do you have a known good prerecorded tape that you can pop in there and test if the playback is good?
Click to expand...

Thanks. Oh gosh, now you're asking. The recorder arrived in a parcel, seemed fine enough on arrival. No, I don't think any in depth testing had been done - the guy just popped an old cassette in, pressed play and verified that the unit still worked. I have been using the best wet cassette cleaner I could find but I have posted another thread asking for advice on solvents for the capstan and pinch roller. Forgive me but, how will a prerecorded cassette address the recording level issue please? The Tascam plays back great, it's only the mic level on vocals which is out, well out. Acoustic guitar and bass guitar (high and low frequencies) come through much better. I want to wait till I get some good guidance on cleaning fluids before I really go over the heads. I'm bewildered by all this, I could handle it if all the recording were low, but only the vocals scrape the levels barrel, it is weird.
 
Do you have a keyboard, or something that can make a steady tone? Recording something like that would really help troubleshoot. there are far too many variables between you talking into a mic and a bass plugged in.

It could be something with the meters being out of whack and somehow more sensitive to something about your voice.

At least make a video of the bass and/or guitar recording fine, that might give a clue.

But a steady sine wave would be a much more controlled test.
 
Wet Head Cleaner!

This is anecdotal, at best: Back in the day when I got my first 244 Portastudio, I used a wet cassette type cleaner, the one you insert into the compartment and press play, and it wipes with a mechanical wiper. On the 244 it runs at double speed (switchable Hi/Low on the 424mkII). Within a short time I lost record/playback signal on a couple tracks & had to have the head replaced by Tascam under warranty. I believe it wrecked the head thru heat or excessive friction, yet I never quite figured it all out for sure. Since then I've recommended against any mechanical type cassette head cleaner for Portastudios. The risks are too high and my suspicion is that it can ruin the head, and yet this is entirely anecdotal so take it for what you will.

I believe (without rereading this entire thread) you said you clean the head and demag after every session. I think you also mentioned that your demag was a cassette-shell type, too. I believe the frequency of these activities is too often and your cleaner & demag to be suspect at this point.

Best practices may be to clean the head by hand with 99% alcohol & cotton swabs, and to demag with a handheld demagnetizing wand.

Back to the point of doing some real solid & methodical record/repro testing on all 4 tape tracks simultaneously, to see exactly what you're dealing with.

Thank you & good luck.

:spank::eek:;)
 
Oops!

Just caught up to previous posts.
Very nice video detailing the testing process I described.
You have some very serious drop off of levels,
especially on Track 2 which doesn't register at all.

I concur with cjacek that you should try a prerecorded cassette to verify the 4 tracks get any playback levels beyond what your tests have shown. Hopefully you get adequate levels on PB of a commercial cassette, then I would suspect a very pronounced calibration issue.

If that's the case, you'll require a full calibration, perhaps best handled by TEAC/Tascam service centers, as it requires a standard calibration tape and some technical tools, know-how and the manual to follow procedures.

I'm very sorry you're having these issues on an otherwise fine machine. Being out of calibration is not like being "broken" but it will nonetheless require a service technician. Some hardcore DIY'ers here might do this on their own, like myself, but I'm a trained technician with a standard calibration tape, meter, scope, tone generator, etc.

I'm sorry if I seemed grumpy in previous posts, perhaps I was, but I'm on your side & I wish you the best of luck in resolving this issue! Thank you also for following my test outline perfectly and shooting an excellent video of the procedure.

:spank::eek:;)
 
Could you do a test for me? Plug a CD player, MP3 player or computer into the sub in RCA inputs of your portastudio. Record the music to tape and play it back. Does it mirror the input source on the meters or not?

BTW, I concur with Dave that your frequent use of the cassette cleaner and demag is suspect here. Never use anything but cotton tipped sticks and 99% alcohol and I personally would never use a demagnetizer.
 
Thanks guys, that's scary about the demag cos Tascam manual recommends it. Stopped using the shell cleaner completely, found some cotton buds from my cine kit. Have used isoprop then started using the stuff that came with the shell ... but am going back to isoprop. Will probably demag once a month now, or equivalent.

Will look at those extra tests with thanks.

A lot of the trouble is me jumping into an unknown recording system - used cassettes a lot in the 80's but this stuff is totally new too me.

Have written to Teac & asked if they know anyone local to me to do a recorder service. This business is fraught though - in mixing down to the Sony double deck I notice that a perfectly balanced (on the Tascam monitor levels which appear to work perfectly) mix comes out on the Sony with stereo left slightly behind stereo right, so I'm also having to compensate for that by upping the pan left slightly. I guess this is the drawback with using once flawless but now old technology?

The VCR took a balanced bounce and returned it likewise.

Later ;)

Ric



Waoh! No, never used the cleaner-shell at top speed - that would inviting disaster! ;]
 
Nothing wrong with old technology but people don't realize that those old beasts must be taken care of and properly maintained, just like any car. It's been a trend for some time now with all the old analogue recording gear, young people mostly buy it up but then complain that something doesn't work, that it's not "plug and play". (Not saying it's you, just giving an example). The analog recording is a completely different animal to what the new generation is used to. Also, no matter what the manual says, I would not use a demagnetizer. It's too risky, especially when done wrong and offers little to no benefit. Not saying for every situation but most often than not. That's just my view based on research and experience.
 
A Reel Person said:
A lot of those anomalies should go away with a proper calibration.
Click to expand...

Thanks guys. There appears to be no-one in my neck of the woods who will service a Tascam tape deck. This is a useful number to have around when computers go bananas, which is consistently.
 
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