4 songs at once...reviewing my almost final mixes

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shackrock

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alright guys - I got 4 mixes up at:
http://www.angelfire.com/emo/shackrockinc/homerec.html
just go check them out.

comments on anything and everything possible (esp. mixing, eq, volumes, "mastering" (if you can call what i did that..haha), etc.).

let me know what to change and as i make changes, i'll reupload them and let you know to see if its any better - which hopefully they will all get better!


soon i'll have about 3 more songs up there too for you guys to check out.

BUT - PLEASE if you are going to listen to the song more then once over a day or 2 days, etc. - then SAVE IT to your computer! Angelfire occasionally has bandwith stopper things - and i know that if many people download all those songs, that i dont doubt it will be activated...lol

thanks again though whoever listens.

scottshack
 
Hmmmm....To me it has kind of a small,tinny sound....everything seems to be happening in a small sonic area(like from1k-to 3k maybe, not sure). I couldnt discern the bass drum at all and the guitars and bass had no "meat" to them. I only listened to the first song though...
I like the song though-dont get me wrong-sounds like it would rock hard live-it just sounds like you need to capture the full range of the individual instruments more. Hope that didnt sound too negative :(..........
 
I'd have to agree with Strat. Sounds pretty mushy overall. Not sure if it's the mix or the tracks. I have a feeling it's probably the tracks. What are your recording on?
 
drums =
sm57 on snare, at pro25 on kick, 2 sm58's as overheads - mixed to one track before it hits my computer.

guitars with sm57 miced at the best angle i could find for it.

bass same as guitars.

vocals with the 58/57.

i have tried to eq them to seperate the tracks, esp. the guitars - any ideas on how to fix those problems? i think it is the MIX more then the tracks though....everything alone sounds full (too full...so full that no eqing makes a muddy muddy mix).
 
What are you recording on? Is it casette? What monitors are you using. There is a general lack of high end and too much mid energy in the whole mix. Try to find out what is causing that.

I wouldn't be so sure that you can save this in the mix unless you have really doctored things up for it to sound this way. If you cant bring up the faders and get a generally good sounding mix to start with than no amount of mix tricks are going to help.

What processes have you gone through to get the mix to this point? If those tracks are much better sounding on their own then you may be trying too hard with EQ in the mix. Sometimes it's hard to hear your music 'fresh' and you get on a path to fix things that turns your mix into crap.

My intention is not to discourage you here. Your band sounds decent and your on the right track. If you really want some advice I'd be glad to help out some more.
 
1) Don't mix your stereo overheads to one track. If you're recording to the computer, there's no reason not to use 4 different tracks for the drums. Your snare sound is good, your kick drum should probably be tuned a little deeper, almost floppy.

2) Too much distortion. If you turn the distortion on those guitars back 25%, you will notice a marked difference in the sound, as far as clarity and separation go.

3) Use a little reverb to put the guitars, drums, and vocals in the same "room." JUST A LITTLE, I hate it when people use too much reverb, but sometimes it is the glue that can weld together a mix like this where everything sounds so different.

4) There is no low end. There should be some bass energy in the 80-200 Hz range. There should be some thump in the kick.
 
hmmm ok.

i'm going straight to my computer (ntrack)...through my terrible sound card (SB awe 16...about 5-10 years old..haha).

but yes - PLEASE feel free to write a book, if you are so inclined to do so...lol


well i have done a lot of EQ stuff with everything actually - pretty much every track. I solo it, and then EQ it (with sonic foundry paragraphic EQ) to where it sounds awesome - and dont get me wrong, It really does sound awesome soloed, a lot better then it did without EQ. Then, i cut back all the db by around half of what they were set at to sound awesome (to make it not so harsh to ears when its all together, and more real sounding..etc.). then, i just play around with all of it, until most of the stuff seems to sit well with the rest of the mix.


a lot of times i find myself cutting distorted guitars freaq at:

-inf db at 60hz or 100hz (and lower)
-inf db at 16000hz (and higher)

and then putting a -1db, 2.5oct cut somewhere in the mid (Wherever it soudns best in the mix) to make the vocals stand out a bit.... and maybe a cut some more in the higher freq. that haven't been cut yet, to get rid of that sometimes annoying dist. buzz.


drums i basically leave alone, since the whole set is already mixed down to one track by the time it hits the computer....if i need a kick drum boost, i will boost that if i can.

bass i think sounds fine usually without me doing anything...usually a cut off at 50hz and wherever the analyzer says it isn't playing anything on the high end.....

vocals i dont touch (maybe a 50hz cut off and a 18000hz cut off or something...stuff where the vocals aren't anyway).


and then after all that....and now that you've promted me to look at it again.....i see that i actually have a high cut at 14,500hz, and a low cut at 25 on the entire mix. I assume, now that i am hearing what you're saying, that THAT could be the one problem of there not being enough high end. HOWEVER, when I get rid of that cut - it sounds a lot more garagey to me (i am using an aiwa mini-system for my reciever and speakers....but they are as flat as can be, and i try to mix to where the instruments sound somewhat like a comparable CD (weezer blue or pinkerton is what i like the sound of the best))......but then again, if i wanted a pro sound, i would send it to a mastering house, not just put a huge cut there...huh? lol

tomorrow i'll work with some of the guitar tracks some, and i'll get rid of that high cut all together...and re-post the first song on that webpage (i'll let you know when i do).....and then tell me what you think.

THANKS A MILLION!
 
I find the gtr sound in "lights out" to be almost on the grating edge of things. The song rocks, and is performed well...just like the above observations...very mid-rangy sounding.
 
You say that you solo and eq each track.If im not mistaken that is number one on the mixing major blunders of all time list :)... You have to trust yourself-otherwise you may; eq as its recording; then eq it during your mix; then eq when you do your mastering, to every instrument! Leave your stuff alone for the most part-just try to create pockets for like freq instuments to sit with each other-

Also you said-you were pulling 100hz from the guitars; that is the beef I was talking about-try putting some of that back in your guitars....

http://www.recordingwebsite.com/articles/eqprimer.html

If you dont have this or know it you should get it pronto!



strat
 
Strat is right. Your EQ technique is a common mistake. IF you really need any EQ it should only be done while listening to the entire mix. A track may sound like crap when it's solo'd but it could fit in the mix perfectly. Never make any EQ or effects changes to a solo'd track.

If you want to a post a really raw mix we could probably give you better suggestions. Just take the raw tracks with no EQ or effects and set the aproximate levels you think will work. Post that and we can tell you where your problems are.
 
That sounds a bit better. There is still a mushy distant quality to it. I would try panning the guitar hard to a side and adding a slight delay of it to the other side. This will open up the middle and let the vocals and drums have a little room.

The bass is a little too concentrated in the upper mids. You want to feel the bass and kick and the real lower energy is missing. It will be hard with the drums already mixed to one track but see if you can bring out the pulse of the beat with a little EQ or compression.

The overall sound reminds me of a lot of the punk stuff released on Sub Pop records in the 80s and early 90s. You are definately headed in the right direction. If I were you I would try to finish up this session and start a new one. Use everything you have learned from this experience and your next attempt should be many times better.

This demo is good enough to give to friends and fans but I wouldnt push it to labels or radio stations yet. Keep at it and you will get there.
 
I like the no-eq version best believe it or not heh.....I agree with Tex about the bass-its the driving riff off the song-it should sound bigger-try running a direct out of his amp and combine that with the sound u get already-the bass sounds too small...The guitar part starting around 2:00 has strange sounding high end to it-maybe its just the amount of distortion-I agree with someone who said earlier-less distortion sounds bigger and better. When you record guitars forget about what sounds good to you with your ears a few feet higher than your cabinet, whats coming out of the speaker is muuuuuch harsher sounding and if you close mic the cab you'll get that harsh sound and not what you expect your sound to be. The riff has stuck in my head though- good rockin tune.
 
tex - for every gutiar track that i do (most..not every actually), i have the guitarist play it all twice. so i have 2 tracks of just about everything distorted.....in this case, i DO have 2 tracks of both distorted guitars....do i still need to add a delay?
if so, how would i go about adding it? maybe you can link me to a "delay info site"....i never quite understood how DELAYING a track from its rigihtful place could add CLARITY...you know?

thanks again though. I've been working on the song a bunch now, i'll keep trying some stuff and i'll repost here when a new version is up.


but also - any key freaq. to boost to add more "bass" to the bass? just around 60hz-150hz?

and lastly...I ended up just starting the entire mix over from scratch...so this new one should end up being a bit better - i hope..lol
 
hey shack, I tried to hear your tunes several times and have been unable to... I try every time you post them and, because I am an idiot and know nothing about computers, I never get to hear them...

Put them on Nowhere radio or something..

later

B
 
b sabbath...try this:

-click that link above
-then go to wichever song you would like to hear
-RIGHT CLICK it, and go to "save target as..." - then save it wherevre you'd like on your computer (i'd suggest your desktop).

Then, play it from your computer once it's downloaded.

hopefully that should work!
thanks
 
Alright, I even listened through my trusty old NS10M's. It's getting pretty close.

There is a really strong bass surge. Aren't you hearing that? It gets really boomy in some parts. It definately needs some compression and maybe a little very low EQ cut.

I cant tell you exact fequencies because I dont work that way. When I need to do parametric EQ'ing I max out the level and sweep the fequency until I find what is bugging me. Then I drop the gain until it sounds right.

It would still help to hear the kick drum. But your definately close. Those bass surges are killing you most of all.
 
shackrock,
okay, i know this is a message board more about the actual *sound* of the material, but I'd like to comment on the content of the material.

First... I really REALLY enjoyed this song. It reminded me so much of my youth... I can just see the small dirty club on a excessively hot sunday afternoon packed with kids just waiting to blow off some steam and aggression. I hear so many of the old "post-hardcore" bands of the early 90's in this, when emo was still called "emo-core" (still had the hardcore part).

I almost hear stuff like old samiam or even crimpshrine or even stuff like... even some lifetime, turning point (later) and also some of the more melodic NYC stuff (ala Bold).

I know since most folks here on this board (99.99%) have probably never been to a hardcore show (a real DIY show), know what Revelation records is, understands what an "X" on ones fist means or is even aware of the true punk/hardcore underground... don't fully understand or appreciate that the sound you captured for this song is actually spot on correct and I wouldn't change anything. Its brilliant and beautiful.

Sorry, if this post was so fluffy, but it struck a nerve :-P
 
hellllll yeahhhhh - that's awesome as hell.

that IS a good point you make, that everyone here probably has different ways of getting the mix to sound its best - and for songs like this (which is about half of the stuff we play), many may not know the "sound" that is ideal...?

however - thanks a million...ha it's great to hear that I could release this to sell locally and it meets the standards for its genre...if that makes sense at least.

also though - i have been recording many bands recently in my shack of a recording studio and all of this critiqueing is great for mixing the rest of the tunes i do. Sadly, many of the local bands that come to me are always pop-punk, which gets old when you mix a song that sounds the same as the other 12 tracks they recorded....haha


if you wanna bring your memories back some more - check out www.shackrockrecordings.com - maybe you'll see some more stuff on there...ha
 
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