4,6,8 16 Ohms

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OLD MAN PRES

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CAN YOU AND WILL IT CAUSE ANY PROBLEMS TO HOOK UP A 8 OHMS SPEAKER CABINET ALONG WITH A 16 OHM?
THE REASON I ASK THIS IS MY RACK MOUNT AMP HAS STERO AND MONO AND AN 8/16 OHM SELECTOR. I DID'NT KNOW IF IT WOULD DAMAGE ONE OF THE SPEAKER CABINET IF ON THE WRONG OHMS. BOTH ARE MARSHALL CABINETS

THANKS

OLDMAN STEVE
 
Some marshall cabinets have a mono/stereo selector on the back that alters the impedance. This could make things more desirable.
It won't neccessarily hurt anything as long as you dont start getting below 4 ohms. Two 16 ohm cabinets together turn into 8 ohms, which pulls more power from the amp. This is good, in most cases. Two 8 ohm cabs turn into 4 ohms, this is good too, if you want to get the most from an amp. But, getting into 2 ohms or below gets dangerous, and I've seen people catch shit on fire by doing this. If I'm not mistaken, and I may be and I hope someone else chimes in, but you'll probably end up running something strange at like 12 ohms. I dont think this will hurt anything, but different ohms can affect tone in certain ways, good or bad. I happen to like lower ohms cause its punchier to me, more power.
I think you're cool, as long as everything is wired correctly. Get a few more opinions.
Paul
 
tubedude is right. Trying to run two different ohmage boxes will have weird effects on the sound.

Better to wire one of the boxes to match the other.

I haven't dealt with wiring guitar speaker boxes in quite a few years, so I will leave the wiring suggestions to someone else.

Ed
 
thanks for you help and advice. i will try to find out where to get wiring help.

oms
 
You rang?

What you end up with when running multiple different speaker impedances depends on how you connect them. There are two options: series and parallel. I don't know anything about the "stero/mono" switching on the Marshall amps- I've never worked with them to any extent. A quick Google search turned up this: http://www.bright.net/~robertso/marshall/1960cab.html
This looks like it is a speaker cab thing, and not an amp thing, so I'm not certain that it would be of that much help...

However, that's never stopped me before. If the amp has two speaker jacks on the back, but only one power amp section, you can pretty much bet that the cabinets will be put in parallel across its output: certainly that's the case with the Fender and Ampeg amps I've wrenched on. If you run an 8ohm load and a 16ohm load in parallel, the amp will see a total load of 5.3 ohms: the formula for resistances in parallel is Reff=(r1*r2)/(r1+r2). This probably won't piss off the amp, but it may not give you the results you want, either. The amp will be delivering twice the current (or 4 times the power!) into the 8ohm cabinet as it does into the 16 ohm cabinet: in short, the 16ohm cab isn't going to be doing much other than making the amp run hot, or distort a little more. It will be making sound, but not very much of it, by comparison.

You could run the two cabs in series, in which case the resistances just add linearly- leaving each cab to see the same power input, but providing a 24ohm load to the amp. And it may not like that very much either.

I'd rather see you just run one cabinet: pick one, and set up the amp's output impedance to match it. I highly doubt that you can split the amp's output transformer to drive an 8 and a 16 simultaneously. Alternatively, you could probably rewire the 8ohm cab to be 16ohms, and then parallel the the two now-16-ohm cabs up with the amp set for 8ohms. That'd work.

Mixing cabinet impedances on tube amps is not usually a good thing to do. It usually causes more difficulties than it solves.
 
skippy is da man in this stuff! Thanks for the post.

Maybe a little tutorial on how to change that 8 ohm box to 16? :) since you are on a roll now....

I am also interested in a little brushing up on how impedence drops when the amps is required to produce lower frequencies, and how that may alter ones decision to run at the amps lowest ohm rating or the next higher one.

Ed
 
Rewiring speakers to change the effective impedance of a cabinet: here's a link that covers it, and does a better job than I'd probably do. http://www.bright.net/~robertso/speakers/spkrcon.html
Note that you can't always get what you want: if you have a cab with 4 16ohm speakers in it, you can get either 4, 16, or 64 ohms as the final impedance (parallel, series-parallel 2x2, or series). Assuming, of course, that you don't want to leave some drivers unconnected....

Really dealing with impedances. That's a good can of worms, and gets into plastic-pocket-protector-and-taped-glasses territory pretty quickly. I was treating "impedance" and "resistance" as equivalent for simplicity, and nothing could be further from the truth: especially, as it turns out, with guitar speakers...
The fact is that the AC impedance of a raw speaker driver varies all over the freakin' map, depending on the frequency of the drive signal and the nature of the cabinet. Drivers are rated with a "nominal impedance" value, say 8ohms. But if you actually do a sweep measurement, you might find that the actual impedance varies from 2ohms at 20Hz to 40ohms at 10kHz, with lumps and dips all over. What does this mean to us as musicians, who need speakers for our performance amps? Less than you'd think, turns out.

Usually, with tube amps, they'd prefer to be loaded with a lower impedance than a higher impedance. Run a tube amp wide open with no speaker load connected (an infinitely high output impedance), and watch it fry from flyback-effect overvoltage: tube sockets arc, nasty things happen. But if you overload a tube amp (drive a lower impedance than rated), you'll usually just get a hot output transformer. Tube amps can usually drive down to ~2 ohms nominal load without too much strain: they will just be very inefficient, and run very hot, if run at lower than their rated impedance. The hotter the output tranformer gets, the less efficient it is, which reduces the power transfer into the load (a negative temperature coefficient). Usually the system achieves a safe (but smelly) operating point. It won't do this forever, obviously, but it won't blow up instantly.

Transistor amps are just the opposite: run a transistor amp rated for a 4ohm nominal load wide-open at 2ohms, and watch it go into thermal runaway (which typically lets the Magic Smoke out). The output transistors conduct _more_ current the hotter they get (a positive temperature coefficient), so the transition from "toasty" to "Pfft!" is usually vigorous, instantaneous, and even _more_ smelly... But take the load off of it altogether, and it will usually not care too much. Different beasts.

Anyway, I'm quite convinced that this is one reason that tube bass amps work so much better in performance. Let's say you're driving 1 15" driver in a bass reflex cabinet, and the cabinet's porting is screwed up so that the resonant frequency of the driver/cabinet/port system happens to exactly correspond to the minimum impedance point of the driver in free air. The result of the cabinet resonance will be to drive the speaker's impedance down even _lower_... Let's say that that's 1.8 ohms at 40hz, just for amusement. With a tube amp driven hard, your sound will get just a little graunchy there- you'll get some extra even harmonics as the output transformer saturates, and you'll get that wonderful smell of warm Tolex. With a transistor amp, you'll get generalized discomfort, as the amp's output stage tries to stay alive: odd-order harmonics, power rail sag, thermal protection kicking in, yadda yadda. Yucko. It's a different form of distortion, and one that I don't care for as much. Death metal folks might disagree, though... (;-)

Basic refresher: you can go lower impedance with a tube amp, within reason. You can go higher impedance with a transistor amp, within reason. Both are most comfortable when driving their rated load, both get uncomfortable when driving not-well-behaved loads: they just get uncomfortable on opposite ends of the scale... When in doubt, believe the nominal load ratings, and match them as closely as you can.
 
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HEY SKIPPY,

WHERE DID YOU LEARN ALL OF THIS STUFF.

THANKS ALOT FOR THE INFORMATION.

IF YOU ARE EVER IN EASTERN N.C. EMAIL ME AND I WILL PUT THE STEAKS ON.

THANKS AGAIN

OMP
 
Aww, I cheated. I'm an electrical engineer by training and avocation, and a lifelong techie-music nerd by choice. Anyway, I've been involved with this stuff for 20+ years, in one capacity or another. I guess that the easiest way to describe it is that I couldn't _not_ learn it.

I thank you kindly for the offer of a steak, and the next time I'm on the Right Coast on a client call, I'll try to look you up!
 
yeah Im way late to this thread but wanted to ask something concerning ohm/impedance.

I re-wired my Marshall 4*12 cab for 4ohms and set my head to 4ohms. So...is this better than keeping it at 16 on both the cab and head? Is it louder our clearer? What I think I understand is that their is less resistance and thus, the amp will not work as hard??? Any clarification here would be appreciated.

thx
 
bair_ohio said:
yeah Im way late to this thread but wanted to ask something concerning ohm/impedance.

I re-wired my Marshall 4*12 cab for 4ohms and set my head to 4ohms. So...is this better than keeping it at 16 on both the cab and head? Is it louder our clearer? What I think I understand is that their is less resistance and thus, the amp will not work as hard??? Any clarification here would be appreciated.

thx
It really doesn't make a lot of difference, the idea is to match the output of the amp with the impedance of the cabinet.
 
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